Trouble is, there aren't twelve people in Alexandria, Virginia who are for the death penalty. He never had a chance of being executed. Now, if the trial were in Houston...

The Moussaoui case calls attention to the burden on the average American public citizen sitting on a jury -- asked to make important, difficult decisions with very little guidance. On what do they base their decision, besides gut feelings and emotion -- both subject to manipulation by courtroom theatrics?

Ongoing forensic research asks the general public to help shape criminal sentencing standards. At www.depravityscale.org, the public can have a direct voice in the development of community-based standards to aid juries -- to replace arbitrariness with evidence-based, objective fairness.

The survey asks participants to rank intents, actions, and attitudes of crimes against eachother, to identify what society feels constitutes "the worst of the worst" -- thus warranting more severe punishments.

Participation takes approximately 10 minutes. Questions? Email questions@depravityscale.org

www.depravityscale.org

Most of the time, you are right on. I would have to disagree in this instance, however. I think it is appropriate that Moussaoui isn't given the martyr's death that he wants so badly. The judge said it all when he stated that Moussaoui wanted to go out with a bang, but will die with a whimper. If he doesn't kill himself, then Moussaoui will have to wait a long time to collect on those virgins that he is owed, not to mention the sort of life he will have trying to fend for himself in our wonderful prison system.

No, I think his sentence was fitting and just. Granted, concerns over the "trauma" he may have suffered is just so much malarkey. I don't support the sentence because I feel that a more serious sentence wasn't warranted, but rather because in his case, life in prison is the most serious sentence.

You have a valid point, a very valid point. But I'm looking, I think, to another point about how the message will be received.

Gerard --

You concede the point's validity to Jonathan Payne much too easily. A life sentence -- in the context of 9-11 -- is not the "most serious" punishment, either within the context of our own legal system, or within the context of our enemy's worldview.

First, as Noonan asks, if this was not deserving of death, then what is? Second, this case had no business being tried in a civilian court. Vodka Pundit speaks to this point quite well. As with the German saboteurs during WW2, he should have been tried by a military tribunal and executed within a matter of weeks.

I'm not a fan of the death penalty, but this man missed a well-deserved date with the hangman.

Oh, I'm not that easy, but I do recognize that the point is a valid one. Is it the right thing to do? I don't think so. I think it will have serious consequences, not the least of which is more death for American civilians here on American soil. That's the most likely result of the jury decision for Americans not directly involved in this maggot's life or death.

Did he deserve to die? Yes, he deserved it. But, in the manner of how we have the "justice" system worked on us in this country,he won't die. In a very real sense, that case is now closed.

What it opens, however, is more death for us and I don't think that those cases will be closed so easily for us and, I hope and pray, not closed easily at all for millions of Muslims who will be sent the bill of fire for the insane worm that lives in the heart of their religion.

In the end, the jury made not only the deaths of thousands of Americans more likely, it made the deaths of hundreds or thousands of Muslims much more likely in response.

In failing to kill one terrorist, they've made it possible for hundreds of thousands to die. I hope they, and the defense lawyers, will remember that if they happen to be left among the living.

When I heard about the jury verdicts in the trial of Sami Alarian (sic) in Florida and the California trial of the father of the boys who went for jihadi training, I felt that jurors are afraid. When I see
the details of the jury findings in this case, I am sure of it.

Your "fake but accurate" letter from the CEO of Borders made it clear that after the NYT's, WaPo,the networks, CNN, MSNBC and 99.9% of the LSM who refused to publish the Danish Cartoons used the safety of their employees as rational, that no sane person would be wise to offend these crazies.

Comedy Central confirmed that by censoring mohammad while showing Jesus in truly offensive segment during Holy Week on South Park. Actually, Parker and Stone unmasked the Liberal propensity to allow any disrespect for Christianity, and Comedy Central fell right into the trap.

I have digressed - all of the above validated that we have reason to fear these people. They succeeded where GW and the Admin have failed - getting America to take the Islamists as a serious threat.

I will never forget that in the final days of the O.J. trial, Judge Ito allowed Black Muslims "bodyguards" into the courtroom.

One wonders who is attending all of these trials. We know that they are very computer savvy. We know that the identities of jurors are not really protected.

I will never be able to get the details of the young Frenchman whose disrespect was his being a Jew. He was tortured for days, with neighborhood joining in. Only because the foreign press reported the story and the details do we know of this. Katie would never report such a story unless she could figure out how Hillary's "village" failed those poor people, forced to act out their rage.

I gag at those persons, who last evening said this showed that we should try all of them in open court.

MILITARY TRIBUNALS ARE THE ONLY ANSWER - WE ARE AT WAR AND THESE ARE NOT POWs - or criminals - THEY ARE WAR CRIMINALS.

Intimidation worked for the MOB. It works everyday all over the world for gang members and drug dealers. The Islamist are all of the above.

Let those "rough men who stand ready" judge these
scum! Do not burden private citizens with families and children to worry about.

How many hostages will be taken to free this scum?

To Jonathan Payne and those that agree with him, I can only hope that only you will be on the plane that they hijack after takeoff from a French airport.

Do you know that France has already filed for his release into French custody, so the little darling can be close to his mommy!

Or maybe it will be a cruise ship, Jonathan. Or a Mall as Gerard suggests.

Problem is that people that disagree with you will also die.

I'd pray Jonathan, that it is not those last few seconds when as the knife is sawing thru you neck when you finally realize how wrong you are.

And just as the "ideas" of the elite have all that unintended "blowback" - you and your buddies have just given our military a very good reason to take prisoners.

Beamers father is already fretting that on the 911 anniversaries, networks will run stories on the harsh treatment of this scum. That the LSM will never stop throwing him in our faces.
Can't wait for the "Tookie" parades.

Think a little deeper Jonathan. We are bowled over by your "generous humanity". Not in the least.

Good news! I sent this piece to Juan Cole, and he's agreed to translate it and pass it along to the proper authorities. He said it was very ambiguous as to whether you were literally or metaphorically asking them to kill more of us, but I think he straightened it out.

It may be worth noting that the judge who presided over the 1st World Trade Center bombing trial (in 1993, trial in 1997-98), has been and will be under US Marshall protection for the rest of his life, due to the very real death threats he had/has received from....shall we say,members of the 'religion of peace'.

And just in case Jonathan Payne thinks I am wildly extrapolating.

The Mommy's Boy stated in court many times:

"George Bush will free me!"

He's just said it again! What do you think this means?

Assuming that most who think this was correct result would likely be President Jed Bartlett fans,recall an episode from a few years ago when one of the Bartlett daughters are taken.

If Bartlett were real, then at least there would be hope as JACK BAUER would also be real.

America would have 3,000 live citizens today if Jack had done the scum's interrogations. Think Cloe and Jack would have left that computer unattended? Know I've given you chills. Just remember the words:

"George Bush will release me!"

So....
Based on this juries reasoning, if Hitler were brown, he would be walking free today??????

wow.....what ignorance...im ashamed that people like this writer call themselves americans..wow...that is all that i choose to say

I am so sorry that there are people who claim to be American then don't behave like it. As I recall this country was founded on the right of freedom of religion. Islam is not against America, but some Muslims are. The problem is people who are lacking information on a subject tend to fear that subject. Maybe more people should look and learn rather than rant and run.
Janet

Amazing, we are now unAmerican - wow! that didn't take long.

Problem is, good "realist humane Americans", some of our "ESP" is more accurate than your "realism":

Read the entire post at Gateway Pundit, if it won't disturb you little morally superior cocoon!

Moussaoui's Mother Blasts Racist US, Says Her Son Did Nothing

The mother of Zacarias Moussaoui lashed out at the US and France as racist and said her son did nothing!

VIDEO HERE

This nightmare in not over yet.
French lawyers for the mother of Zacarias Moussaoui will begin work to transfer Moussaoui to France to serve his prison sentence.

Try to read this while congradulating the jury for their
"humanity".

Sorry, gang but this guy deserves a rope. Our first mistake was in granting him a civilian court when he should have been hauled before a military tribunal. I do not even recall who's decision that was. In past wars, enemy combatants caught on our soil, not in the uniform of the enemy, and involved in espionage and other heinous acts get to smoke a cigaro and take what's coming to them. I do not mean to sound blood thirsty but I agree with Gerard that it sends the wrong message. Why should we give quarter to an enemy who gives us no quarter? Our leniency will only encourage more killing. Now Zac gets a TV, a computer, exercise equipment, access to the outside world, and probably a team of lawyers that will fight for his rights to spread his message. What's next, Katie Couric live from the lockup?

For Moussaoui to be hostage bait, he has to be alive. If he makes it for six months in prison I'll be amazed. Prisons are full of men with nothing left to lose, no place to park their violence and lust, and access to sharp and blunt objects.

Talk to anyone who's dealt with violent felons. Moussaoui will be seen as a baby murderer and worse. If he's lucky he'll die quick. If not, he's going to become very familiar with the receiving end of sexual aggression and suffer some terribly appropriate humiliations and agonies before the brutal and just end.

Ask Mom --

The way prisons like SuperMax are run, inmates are alone 99 percent of the time, providing little-to-no opportunity for the kind of prison violence associated with "regular" penitentiaries.

I think it's extremely unlikely that Moussaoui will be killed in prison, leaving him a tempting obsession for terrorists bent on freeing a jihadi unjustly held by the Great Satan.

No good will come from the mercy shown by the jurors.

I stand by my analysis. I know very well how supermax prisons are run, and how they are subverted. Moussaoui is history; soon, we can hope. But we'll find out, won't we? I just hope the planning for the hostage-taking on his behalf is not so advanced that it occurs sooner.

I fear we have become so "educated" that our intellectualism will require tens of thousands of us to die before we will recognize our Islamic enemies for who they are.

You must recognize your enemy before you can defeat him. We haven't yet recognized ours.

Jane incorrectly states: "Islam is not against America, but some Muslims are."

I regret to inform Jane that America and the Religion of Freedom it represents is anethema to Islam and always has been. It is not, as many would like to comfortably believe, a war of "some Muslims" against America and freedom, but a war of Islam against freedom and America as the world's chief torch bearer for freedom.

Islam is a religion that preaches and requires submission and slavery. Were Jane a woman in Saudi Arabia she would understand that. I know well that many Islamics would claim that submission is freedom, but many in 1984 would make similar specious claims. It is a totalitarian religion that breeds and maintains totalitarian regimes. The sooner the world is shut of it the better.

Jane also opines: "The problem is people who are lacking information on a subject tend to fear that subject. Maybe more people should look and learn rather than rant and run."

This is a standard canard in which the objector assumes and asserts that the party to which they are opposed is ignorant not just of a few facts but of all relevant facts. This is proven, in their mind, by the single fact that their position is not agreed with. Q.E. D.

Perhaps it's just the cynic in me, but somehow I think that even if the jury voted for the death penalty Moussaoui would still be sitting on death row for more than my natural lifetime.

Excerpt from Dinocrat today - one of those "great mind" things:

Moussaoui and United 93 show how unserious America is today

Armies don’t fight wars; the people fight wars. Right now the people, with their treacherous elites, aren’t doing so well. It is a tribute to your optimism that you think the death penalty for Moussaoui would make a difference. It is a tribute to your patriotism and spirit that you were enraged and energized by the heroes of flight 93. But right now, these are as grains of sand in a hostile ocean. American confidence and American desire have to back up American might or we surely cannot win this war.

All the Moussaouis need to be dead, and a hundred films like those of WWII need to be made. What will it take to wake America up?

UPDATE

Perhaps in response to our question above, we have received a letter from America herself, and she says she intends to keep on sleeping.

Jack Risko's Dinocrat.com is also a site worth visiting every day.

Hey gang, how much do you want to bet that within 6 weeks the ACLU will be suing the government on Zach's behalf because a guard looked at him in a hateful way? Or maybe because the Halal meals weren't quite Halal enough. Perhaps the Koran that the Great Satan provides him will be touched in an inappropriate manner. Hey, I know! The toilet faces Mecca!

Don't worry, kids, Zach (and his pals) have a looooong time to figure out ways that he's being mistreated.

Jeffrey Daumer didn't last long in prison. Neither will Moussaoui.

Ask Mom -

Like the other poster mentioned, you don't undestand the isolation and control present at a Supermax. No other prisoners will have access. There are no "ways to get round this". No prisoner has ever killed another prisoner in a Supermax.

Nor is a soldier like Moussaoui likely to be considered as low as a child molester...

But even if a jailhouse lynch mob of felons was able to kill him, that would be the lowest form of justice we could imagine, disgracing America. I tell that to any death penalty person that says they hope a convict is raped and lynched - (insincerely) just as long as the people and state don't get involved. They usually shut up when I say, "If it is OK for felons to do what you are afraid for the People to do, why not just turn over a convicted prisoner to the victim's family...if they wish to make retribution personal??" The response is "that would be wrong!". OK for justice to come from the lowest of the low but no one else..Makes about as much sense as the rest of their case.

Bottom line: Trying an illegal enemy combatant by a civilian jury under civilian laws makes as much sense as turning over all product liability cases to a military tribunal to decide on. BUt the lawyers think they are in charge of everything or should be, so they grabbed onto being the "law enforcement solution to terrorism".

Education is supposed to make us better world citizens, more aware, better informed. Man, a crackpot of flesh and blood. Yes, the answer is more education preferably at an Ivy league school. Don't make me laugh.

And Muslims like to think of themselves as being a group that embraces death to make a statement. They got nothing on that Virginia jury when it comes to suicidal martyrdom.

Just a simple question:

Can't his execution be arranged in prison?

Sammy, Janet

Could not disagree with you more.

It is not that we have a problem with fundamentalist Islam....it is that we have a problem with the fundamentals of Islam.

Starting with stopping the advance of the Ottoman army near Vienna in 1592 to it's eventual defeat in 1683, the West has enjoyed a relative peace with Islam. I am afraid we are entering a new phase where Islam has now infiltrated most of Europe and is beginning to make it's intention known. Islam's actions to date, from expressing outrage and hyper-sensitivity to every perceived slight to the global temper tantrum over the cartoons have been tentative, a "dipping of the toe to test the waters" approach and regretfully, our response has been timid and less than worthy of us.

I fear we are to expect much more and much worse from the practitioners of the "religion of peace". What really matters is how the West will react. Will we handle them as we would spoiled capricious children or will we cave to the bankrupt ideology of multi-culturalism and be subsumed?

Moose means nothing. He was a foil, a handy target for our wrath. A fool, a fraud, a tool. A danger more to himself than to others, and only so far as stubbing his toes on flat ground.

He isn't competent enough to be incompetent. He'll be forgotten.

Will people be kidnapped to get him freed? Who cares? You're dealing with the type who'll kidnap people for any damn reason. Execute him, people would get kidnapped. Don't execute him, people would get kidnapped. Free him from prison and crown him king of the world, and people would get kidnapped. It doesn't matter what you do to, for, or with the moron, people would get kidnapped. He's a convenient excuse.

What we do with a convicted criminal is our business, never let the reaction of others, who means us harm anyway, determine your course of action.

Sometimes a story doesn't end the way you think it should. Sorry, but it wasn't your story to tell. Life goes on, the war goes on. One meaningless life won't change that.

Personally, I'm planning on killing myself before my fellow Americans get me killed.

Gerard --

The photo you placed at the head of this post is a tremendous reminder of what Moussaoui and his cohorts did to us and our loved ones. It sent a chill down my spine, looking at these people, making the unimaginable decision that a step into space was preferable to death in the inferno raging at their backs.

And it makes me so goddam mad that the MSM has kept this out of sight since 9-12. Righteous anger is an appropriate response to the murder of our fellow Americans, and white-hot retribution must -- must -- be visited upon those who forced these men and women to make such a terrible choice.

I'm not a lawyer, so can someone explain to me just WTF the details of Mooseowi's (sp) childhood have to do with his prior knowledge of, and thus legal culpability for, the 9/11 attack?

For men like him, there should be following:
3000 times in random 3000 nights he should be awaken and lead to noose.After everything ready for final step with 40 pounds hanging from his legs,taken away to his cell.On day when he stops to urinate close to final execution- pause-.For few days[nights].Again.
Final execution should never to known to him.
This way he would pay for lives of 3000 of his victims.We would see how he would be pleased in moments of meeting with his Allah.

I think the jury made the right decision to confine him for the rest of his unnatural life in Supermax. He will be isolated, in solitary confinement, for 23 hours out of the day, with only one hour a day to exercise underground. He will not be provided any amenities like television or books to occupy himself.

Had he been put on death row, he'd have company, entertainment, a slew of taxpayer funded attorneys working around the clock to save his life, and an amen chorus of stupid celebrities like those who tried to save Tookie Williams. Moreover, he'd be a rallying point for radical Islamofascists. Once we finally offed him, he'd be considered a hero and a martyr.

This way, the jury has found a way of burying him without getting our hands bloodied. No one on either side of the Atlantic will seriously agitate for him, his mommy's whining aside. Just like no one is working day and night to get Richard Reid (who is also in Supermax) repatriated to Britain for a lighter sentence. He will quickly and totally be forgotten about and that is exactly what he deserves.

Massoui may spend some time in prison, true. But it won't be very long before the Islamic terrorists hold a school full of children, somewhere, hostage in exchange for his release. Or something of that nature, anyway.

But unlike Beslan, the terrorists will make the cost of not giving in to their demands more than we are willing, or able to bear, and he will be released.

He's too valuable as a propaganda tool for AQ to lose. In such a case, the US will be humiliated before "the Power of Islam".

He said that "George Bush will release me." I think he knows that what I postulate is going to happen. Probably sooner rather than later.

We haven't seen or heard the last of Zacharias Mossoui. Neither his, nor AQ's killing days are over.

Not by a damn sight.

Robert Conner

Dear Vanderleun and Americastan

Thank you for your open letter and it was very thoughtful of you in recognizing our good work. When I opened you letter I was actually sitting in front of my home cinema watch 9/11 work which was widely distributed in the Muslim world and is watch on a regular basis for entertainment. I did manage to read you letter holding it in one hand and in the other eating away at the popcorn while the booms of the planes crashing into the pride of America echo in my cinema speakers. My best part of the DVD is the people jumping out to save their lives but what were they really thinking that jumping from over 50 floors from Americas pride buildings were going to save them, I think not, after all it was just a plan which we borrowed to knock down to the ground the America twin pride, the people jumping out just reminded me when I was eating jelly and how blobs fell off my spoon and splattered onto the ground, aahh I wish I had purchased the tickets to watch this live and exclusives, but the tickets had all been sold out.

You letter to me is of no surprise since I gathered one day you would thank us and ask us for help, and in return we would love to do what you have asked us to. After all killing you as America is our ultimate aim since we all gather the world would no miss America if it was wiped of the planet and replaced by Islam. Islam is the only way forward where everyone lives in peace under Islam and no in Hollywood or some dream work which America is in at the moment and as we all know dreams are dream and we intend to bring reality to you instead.

9/11 was merely a practice run, as we strongly believe that practice makes perfect. So thank you once again for acknowledging 9/11 but please do not be mistaken if you think that was the real thing since it was only a practice and there’s plenty more where that come from. You wish for us to kill you in huge numbers is nothing new since we realized you would ask us to do so, so baring that in mind we asked was good friend Iran to playing with a new toy which is nuclear weapons while most of the US military is occupied in the useless war in Iraq only if they new what was coming next they would be lined up at the borders of US waiting the new drama coming soon.

Again please do not be mistaken with Iran saying that they are going to use this technology for civilian use since what they really mean by “Civilian use” is to drop it on US and use the civilians to fry very similar to what happened in Hiroshima where the US used nuclear technology for civilian on them, unfortunately we were on holiday so miss it but we are happy to so the world once again.

You are right that we took a break in contributing to civilization in the past 500 years since we had been running civilization in the ottoman empire for over 1500 years, we need a rest so we went to sleep hoping that some people when we wake up their may be someone to play with, the world is boring without a challenge, and our prediction was correct, America wants to play and we are happy to play with them and 9/11 was just a trial run and a practice.

Throat slitting use to be fun and we use to love making happy home phone movies of slitting throats of Americans and sending them on mobiles phones and in some parts of the world its still their custom, but as you aware can’t always stick to one method since world evolves so fast that we need to invest in some new technology which our other close friend Pakistan has developed, the ready made nuclear weapons, which incidentally helped Iran to play around with. Pakistan did forward their gratitude to Saudi Arabia in financial help to develop such excellent technology which definitely will make your dream come true of die in mass number.

I have to admit that we are very well impressed with the way you treat out people who tend to get lost in your country and are picked up by your security forces, who (on the tax payers money) help them and provide them with good facilities. We are so proud of this that we clearly now know how caring and understanding you are towards out aims and objectives, and in all honestly I can’t find a way to thank you but I guess the only way is to carry on doing what we do best.

One part we don’t understand and maybe you can help us understand is that, how come men are sleep with men and women are left to using solid objects to replace man. Has America lost its manhood or is it just confused amidst the excitement which we showed them on 9/11. Hollywood is just a dream and please don’t think for a second that you could ever be part of it, its ok to purchase items which resemble Hollywood (like the way they dress, eat, sleep, and allot more) but remember the reality that your freedom is in our hands and is noting to protect you forever. Its far better to accept that you have a very short life indeed.

Jihad is the best part of our mission and when our people return home from you special international first class flights, they are quite rightly accepted as international Muslim heroes and we surely are proud of them.

Since writing a reply back to you my mood has changed and I feel like calling a few close friends and creating a barbecue were we can show on a big plasma screen the 9/11 DVD and those scenes of people just dropping out of the building, excellent.

Once again we truly accept you invitation and plans were already in place but this letter just makes me so excited that I can’t wait for too long. America was always going to get what was coming to it and just make sure you and your children get plenty of sleep since one day you might wake up from this dream of yours and face the reality, America will not last too long now and that’s our hearty promise.

Yours truly,

Islam

[Editor's Note: Thanks Islam, we'll be talking with you on the day after. Wear plenty of sun-screen.]

Dear Islam,

I apolagise for the original letter posted out to you. I made many errors in that letter for which i now feel very embaraced. I feel embaraced at my level of naivity after 9/11 in believing the American Government when they fed the nation lies which had no end - and till this day, continue to flourish. I feel embaraced that my intelligent government blamed you for the 9/11 attacks within minutes, yet failed to stop FOX news the same morning from reporting that there was "no plane" at the scene of the pentagon. I feel embaraced that my intelligent government has taken every oppurtunity in blaming you for the attacks so that it can exercise its gangster tactics, become global bully, urinate over all international laws and conventions and go on a indiscriminate bombing spree all over the world in the name of "Peace" simply to get richer and test its chemical weapons arenal at the same time. If only my goverment listened to the Prophets that God had sent, our "peacefull and righteous" government would have had better morals and values! I hope and pray to God to sent Jesus Son Of Mary back very quickly to put this arrogant government back in its place, before they kill hundreds of thousands of more "innocents" and destroy thousands more families and villages. I dedicate http://www.loosechange911.com to you, so that those muslims amongst your midst who are also living behind a smoke screen, can do a much needed reality check!

With eyes now wide open

America

[The editors of American Digest would like to apologize to the literate people of the Islamic world for allowing illiterate and ranting messages to sneak through. I know you cannot understand why we let so many of our insane people run loose on our streets and our internets, but it is our way. Free speech does have its costs, among which are fools, idiots, and those who cannot write a simple sentence. Irritating, I grant you, but a small price to pay.]

Dear short lived America

Islam can be as peaceful as you want it to be or the most deadliest you don’t want it to be, but the choice is yours. Who decides your future – you your selves or you government?

Yours

The upcomming Islam