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“They’ve Got A Little List:” Machiavelli on the control of envy. Poretto on the place to which we have come.

The other way in which envy may be extinguished, is by the death, whether by violence or in the ordinary course of nature, of those who have been your rivals in the pursuit of fame or power, and who seeing you better esteemed than themselves, could never acquiesce in your superiority or put up with it in patience. For when these men have been brought up in a corrupt city, where their training is little likely to improve them, nothing that can happen will induce them to withdraw their pretensions; nay, to have their own way and satisfy their perverse humor, they will be content to look on while their country is ruined.

For envy such as this, there is no cure save by the death of those of whom it has taken possession.

And when fortune so befriends a great man that his rivals are removed from his path by a natural death, his glory is established without scandal or offense, since he is then able to display his great qualities unhindered. But when fortune is not thus propitious to him, he must contrive other means to rid himself of rivals and must do so successfully before he can accomplish anything.

Anyone who reads with intelligence the lessons of Holy Writ will remember how Moses, to give effect to his laws and ordinances, was constrained to put to death an endless number of those who out of mere envy withstood his designs. The necessity of this course was well understood by the Friar Girolamo Savonarola, and by the Gonfalonier Piero Soderini. But the former could not comply with it, because, as a friar, he himself lacked the needful authority; while those of his followers who might have exercised that authority, did not rightly comprehend his teaching.

This, however, was no fault of his; for his sermons are full of invectives and attacks against “the wise of this world,” that being the name he gave to envious rivals and to all who opposed his reforms. As for Piero Soderini, he was possessed by the belief that in time and with favorable fortune he could allay envy by gentleness-and by benefits conferred on particular men; for as he was still in the prime of life, and in the fresh enjoyment of that good-will which his character and opinions had gained for him, he thought to get the better of all who out of jealousy opposed him, without giving occasion for tumult, violence, or disorder; not knowing how time stays not, worth suffices not, fortune shifts, and malice will not be won over by any benefit. Wherefore, because they could not or knew not how to vanquish this envy, the two whom I have named came to their downfall. — DISCOURSES ON THE FIRST DECADE OF TITUS LIVIUS BY NICCOLO MACHIAVELLI

There is no arguing with a man who has decided that what he wants above all other things is power over you. You cannot reason with him. You cannot reform him. You cannot keep him from pursuing what he wants.

Indeed, there is only one long-lasting countermeasure: you must kill him. As most of us in the Right are moderately reluctant to kill others, including the deepest-dyed of black-hearted villains, he has an edge over us that’s most difficult to overcome.

     I would surmise that a great part of the interest being expressed in partitioning the nation into separate  “red” and “blue” sovereignties arises from the unexpressed awareness that we cannot triumph over the Left without “going for the guns.” If you know that the price of victory is mass executions, but are unwilling to kill, what remains but flight? Yet even flight would provide only a temporary respite, for they who want power want it over everyone and everything. They would pursue us. Ultimately, we would have to fight them to the death.

     I purely hate having to say such a thing. I’m more confrontation-averse than anyone else I know. But I can’t avert my mind from the facts and logic that have brought me here.

— Poretto, Carts And Horses, 2021 Edition “ Liberty’s Torch

Comments on this entry are closed.

  • Kevin in PA October 26, 2021, 12:19 PM

    Machiavelli’s – The Prince is a terrific read if only for the insight into the darkness of men’s hearts as they lust after power. It is uncommon thinking to ordinary people (most people) who wish to simply live life and let others live theirs.
    And it was written in a time when Italy was in chaos 13 or 14th Century (have they ever not been in chaos since the fall of Rome?).
    Around the same time there happened to be a Count. A very corrupt Count named Ugolino. His is an interesting tale of the overflowing passion of a people that have been betrayed, used and abused by a corrupt politico and the punishment meted out by enraged and angry citizenry.
    The link is to the blurb from the Metropolitan Museum of Art in NYC, where a depiction in white marble sculpture is on display in the European gallery of sculpture. Ugolino’s story is related to Dante’s Divine Comedy and it is an horrific manner in which to die….and that your children would be subject to the punishment for your crimes is also quite shocking. My point is that there is no depth to which people will go in seeking retribution once the genie is out of the bottle. When vengeance is the order of the day look out, because no one is safe. The blood lust of the mob seeking revenge against corrupt usurers is immeasurable.
    I do find myself in the quandary shared by the very intellectual, Poretto. “As most of us in the Right are moderately reluctant to kill others, including the deepest-dyed of black-hearted villains, he has an edge over us that’s most difficult to overcome.” That is the crux of it, no?

    As the first one to comment on the Liberty’s Torch post by Francis, said “who wants to bell the first cat?”

    • Mike Austin October 27, 2021, 3:23 AM

      “The Prince” by itself is an excellent read, though one could certainly benefit beforehand by brushing up on Renaissance History. Machiavelli was no Christian, and his advice to the rulers of the world is purely secular. Some of it is harrowing indeed. Any ruler today who followed Machiavelli would sooner or later be brought up on charges in the World Court. He admires Caesar Borgia, a Realpolitik type of guy if ever one existed. Borgia’s career was—how should one say it?—“colorful”.

      Those versed in the History of Early Republican Rome should pick up a copy of “The Prince With Discourses on Livy”. Brilliant and fascinating.

      Dante placed all his enemies in Hell, and as well populated it with evil men who have appeared throughout History. If you want to read his “Divine Comedy” grab a copy with the Gustav Dore illustrations. Gore did for Dante what Frazetta did for Robert E. Howard’s “Conan”.

      One example:


      Frazetta and Conan:


  • james wilson October 26, 2021, 1:56 PM

    This of course aleady happened 160 years ago. The self-righteous refused to take no for an answer and the war was on. It’s still on. It was possible to take clearly defined sides and geography to go with it at that time. Now it isn’t. Worse, it has never been so simple for the cunning and manipulative to control hearts and minds as at present.
    Churchill was wrong. Democracy is not the worst from of government except all the others. Perhaps in time the so called Dark Ages will be thought of as including our own.

    • Mike Austin October 27, 2021, 3:40 AM

      “Churchill was wrong. Democracy is not the worst from of government except all the others.” Agreed. Anyone who studied the History of the Greek city-states might come to the same conclusion. The Greeks believed all men should be engaged in politics, and that only a fool or a slave would avoid public office. Strife, continual civil wars, wars against the other Greek states, extraordinary violence: this was the daily life in Ancient Greece. A normal man who just wanted to live his life might have preferred Achaemenid Persia (539 BC – 331 BC). We have a negative view of the Persians because they themselves wrote little history, and so much of what we know of them comes from Herodotus and Xenophon—who were of course both Greek. Imagine a History of the US as written by China and you will see what I mean.

      The best form of government? A benevolent monarchy. Christ did not invite us into His democracy or His republic, but into His Kingdom.

      “Perhaps in time the so called Dark Ages will be thought of as including our own.” I had not thought of this. Not a pleasant thing to consider. I should add that any nation that cannot tell the difference between men and women will not survive.

  • Nori October 26, 2021, 2:14 PM

    When Obama was “elected” to his second term,Valarie Jarrett said “We will reward our friends,and punish our enemies”,which is precisely what this cabal of psychopaths have been doing.
    Fundamental transformation.

    Our vocal cords are being cut,and parasites are eating our faces.

  • PA Cat October 26, 2021, 3:19 PM

    Mark Twain understood the destructive power of envy: “Man will do many things to get himself loved, he will do all things to get himself envied.” (from Pudd’nhead Wilson’s New Calendar, 1895)

  • OneGuy October 26, 2021, 3:53 PM

    It is a mistake to think that death of all or most of your enemies or even to fight the police/military is the right way to fix this mess. Very few deaths would change the situation completely. If a few of the worst Senators were to die tomorrow from covid or other fatal illness most of the dirty deeds that the Democrats in congress plan for us could not be passed. If just 1 or 2 of the key reps were to pass away the same thing would be true as well.

    • Dirk October 26, 2021, 5:14 PM

      One guy, It is said that with the swift violent deaths of roughly 1000 men and women, most problems would solve themselves. I’m skeptical, I see others swiftly filling their dead associates shoes.


      • Fletcher Christian October 26, 2021, 8:28 PM

        I think that number is too small. It would have to include the entire governing board of every single financial institution, and the CEO of every Fortune 500 company, and continue with all politicians who have served more than 2 terms in either House.

        Basically, the West needs open season on all the parasites. Shakespeare’s character had a very good point about lawyers, for example.

        • Mike Austin October 27, 2021, 3:47 AM

          Agreed. Any civil war that does not completely and absolutely eliminate the source of the conflict will fail. When a surgeon cuts out a cancer, he does not leave a few cancer cells alive, but rather cuts out some healthy cells as well—just to make sure.

          As for lawyers ( and to paraphrase Lenin): The last lawyer should be strangled with the entrails of the last politician.

    • Mike Austin October 27, 2021, 6:43 AM

      We should recall daily this wisdom of Curtis LeMay: “If you kill enough of them, they stop fighting.” He remembered his Sherman who asked Lincoln, “Let me kill 200,000 Southerners and the war will end.” He did and it did.

      In warfare, victory goes to the side who breaks his enemy’s will to fight. This could occur any number of ways, not just the elimination of enemy soldiers. In Vietnam the US military won every battle but lost the will to fight. That war was lost not on the fields of Insensate Mars, but in the minds of men.

  • Casey Klahn October 27, 2021, 6:14 AM

    Machiavelli would’ve loved the scenario (what follows is fiction) where the unvaxxed and sundry other vermin are * housed * on the penal island of Australia, in camps. All of them; those from Sweden, and Oregon, and Brazil. World camps.

    In passing, I heard an Aussie talking head saying they have an airport by their Covid “hospital” facility and they welcome patronage from overseas. Did you get the gubmint shot? If not, you do appear on a little list.

    • Dirk October 27, 2021, 7:21 AM

      Casey very clever. !!!!!. These camps have been planned for many many years. In fact the US govt has there very own internment manual out.

      Titled, Internment and Resettlement operations


      We chatted about this on WRSA, many years ago, about exactly where this would be applied. One of the guys pointed out that in the identification of individuals the use of Social Security Cards, and Drivers Licenses, we’re mentioned.

      SSI is specific to the US, nowhere else.


  • Fred Z October 30, 2021, 3:04 AM

    I am amused at Poretto writing that he is “confrontation-averse”.

    He’s anything but, at least verbally. Go ahead post a comment vigorously disagreeing with him, see what you get. I quit reading him when I realized how bad tempered he is. I go to blogs, columnists and essayists to avoid the nastiness of things like twitter.

    • Mike Austin October 31, 2021, 3:25 PM

      Yep. Had that experience a number of times. But no more.