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New Methods in Extreme (But Short) Methods of Crowd Control

Whatever happens, we have got
The Maxim gun and they have not.
— Hilaire Belloc (1898)

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  • Ca July 27, 2020, 3:53 PM


  • Casey Klahn July 27, 2020, 9:24 PM

    I’ll order 2 crates.

  • Nancy Schreiber July 28, 2020, 6:02 AM

    Watched “Red October” for the first time a few weeks ago. It’s hard for me to equate BLM/Antifa with world wide evil power governments But maybe they are. No one not in them believed in Nazi Concentration Camps. Long time lurker commenting.

  • Phil in Englewood July 28, 2020, 8:34 AM

    I’ll chip in for another crate if I can come to KlahnFest and test them out. Love it!

  • Jack July 28, 2020, 8:47 AM

    Nancy, what do you mean when you say it’s hard for you to equate BLM/Antifa with world wide evil power governments who most assuredly will create and utilize concentration and death camps for
    all of their opponents and for many of those who assisted them in their conquests?

    Are you serious?

  • James ONeil July 28, 2020, 8:48 AM

    The 40mm is impressive but my .41 mag Desert Eagle is a bit handier.

    When I bought it, the .41 was one only one the dealer had in stock. I planned to buy a .44 mag barrel for it later but as the .41 penetrated three 2X4s & over half way in to a fourth one, I decided the .41 would suit my needs just fine.

    I carry the Desert Eagle as a bear gun, not necessarily the best choice for crowd control.

    If I ever have need to control a crowd of bears, I think I’ll grab my Winchester Model 12 instead, still a bit handier to haul around than the 40mm 😉

  • ghostsniper July 28, 2020, 9:25 AM

    James sed: “If I ever have need to control a crowd of bears, I think I’ll grab my Winchester Model 12…”
    I used to think that way. (I have a 1917 vintage model 12, 12 ga.) When I went to Alaska to run trap lines the idea was to have my Ruger .357 on my hip and my 870 Wingmaster with slugs slung across my back. Well I seen a video the other day of a black bear running down an antelope and caught it. Saw another vid of a bear aggressively climbing a tree. Those vids changed my attitude about bears. I’m thinking a pump shotgun might not be fast enough to do what needs doing. Maybe an 1100 autoloader. In 10 gauge. Double Barreled.

    I’ve fired 40mm rounds before, from an M203 but the rounds weren’t as long as in the vid. They had a horrible trajectory. You have to rainbow them onto the target, which in my case, was a tank turret.

  • Jack July 28, 2020, 12:46 PM

    Ghost, if you’re going to use a heavily stoked 12 gauge, and I’m speaking in terms of a tube full of 3″ magnum rounds, you might do better in terms of shock and recoil management with a .375 H&H. And, in any situation for defense shot placement is paramount.

    I’ve shot a lot of stuff in my life and a 12 with 3″ loads knocks the crap out of me. I think of it as vicious. I had little time to recover and get back on target because that gauge with a 3″ slug will whack you with roughly 54 pounds of felt recoil and follow up shots, even with an auto loader are worse. I think that the felt recoil with a side-by-side might be a little less but double barreled shot guns, as opposed to double barreled rifles, aren’t notoriously accurate at distances beyond 50 yards because shotgun barrels are not regulated like those of double rifles.

    The .375 on the other hand might hit you with 35+/- pounds of felt recoil with a 300 grain slug. That recoil is roughly twice that of a .30-06 with a 150 grain bullet and I think the .30-06 is very pleasing to shoot. A .375 in a double rifle is very often the chosen rifle of African PHs for rapid followup shots on dangerous game but good ones are expensive.

    Kimber, makes a lovely bolt action called the Caprivi or something like that and it’s available for a little beyond a $1,000, +/-. If I had another 10-15 left in me I’d own one today. Even if I didn’t use it.

  • Jack July 28, 2020, 12:53 PM

    Correction….I don’t know how I missed the key stroke. The Kimber usually sells just above $3K and it’s a great deal.

  • Nancy Schreiber July 28, 2020, 1:02 PM

    Yes. I’m a dummy. Never thought it would happen in the USA. Almost as dumb as Joey Biden.

  • ghostsniper July 28, 2020, 1:11 PM

    @Jack, I am older and wiser now and even if I had an unlimited budget the allure that attracted me way back then, some 40 years ago, does no more. I try not to have a quarrel with any animal especially those that can eat me.

  • captflee July 28, 2020, 2:37 PM

    Funny, I was thinking about bears this morning…having decided to crank out as many of the sections of the Mountains to Sea Trail situated on Game Lands as I can during the weeks left before the shooting commences in September. This morning’s foray was about 70 miles inland, and chock full of turkeys, raccoons, doves, deer, and reasonably sized black bear, if the tracks are any indication. The walks are rather pedestrian as far as trails go; generally one is on shadeless dirt roads all or most of the time, and the sun beats down mercilessly, so one is well advised to get a relatively early start, though too early can have one inadvertently face to face with critters best viewed from afar.

    I’ve pretty much always got a pistol on me, but my existing daily carry may have to be supplemented with something a little more potent, rather more akin to the sort I observed my fellow tipplers at The Bird House checking as they arrived to commence the ritual downing of Redeyes. Alas, .40 cal self defense loads out of a 2.5″ barrel, while sufficient for removing the genitals of would be urban muggers, (your target wearing a heavy sweatshirt on a 95 degree day tends to make one ponder just what is below, say body armor, thus altering one’s point of aim) might only piss off a raging ursine, bouncing off its cranium or lodging harmlessly in fat. Suggestions for something concealable (in the legal, if not strictly practical sense) yet sufficient for the task would be most sincerely appreciated from those of you in climes where they grow ’em bigger and badder (bears, not ‘yoots).

    As far as ammo goes, that’s some nice high tech 40mm…very trick, indeed. Even on the big, fast, haze gray boat they only gave us star shells for the M-79, to warn off folk before the M-2s did their thing. The niftiest thing I ever saw for those was also a Norskie product, from Nammo’s predecessor, Raufoss rounds. Not that I admit to having ever possessed such a thing…probably wouldn’t be sporting for use on small craft.

  • Boat Guy July 28, 2020, 5:18 PM

    For an “outdoors” sidearm I’ve gone with a Ruger Redhawk filled with Buffalo Bore solids. Springfield makes their XD in 10mm and the mag capacity is 15. I would use Buffalo Bore in that too. The Alaskan fishing guide who stopped a bear with a 9mm was shooting Buffalo Bore.
    The ammo for the Mk19 is a much higher-velocity round than those used in the M79 or M203 and the airburst function really enhances the effec on the target.
    Sorry if I don’t believe in being “sporting” in these matters

  • H July 28, 2020, 6:46 PM

    Jack. You can’t take the money with you. Buy the gun, whether you ever use it or not.

  • Vanderleun July 28, 2020, 7:25 PM

    Love to have even a smidgen of those arms, all the serious arms I had went in the Paradise fires. Hard to replace in the state of California. Lots of paperwork.

  • James ONeil July 29, 2020, 12:05 PM

    Ghost, after well over 50 years up here on top of the world, I’ve worked out my bear safety strategy pretty carefully; first and most important, pick a companion that runs slower than me, second carry a heavy gun so when I drop it I can run even faster! Alas, as I get older, it’s harder and harder to find someone slower. 😉

    Seriously though I’m reasonably comfortable in bear country with my Model 12 with a pumpkin ball in the chamber & pumpkin balls and double-aught in the tube. If nothing else that little extra assurance allows one to stand quietly instead panicking, running & looking like fast food. In my few bear encounters, just standing and letting them have the right of way worked out fine.

    -knowing, of course, past performance is no guarantee of future results.