“Everybody knows” that the cowardly Uvalde cops sat in the hall for over an hour while children were being shot and school police chief Arredondo gave the order to stand down, although of course the officers could have gotten the key or breached the doors or shot through the doors without hurting any children.
Except that we don’t know those things, although there certainly have been reports in the MSM stating them as facts or as obvious conclusions – much or all of the specific information coming from anonymous sources.
I would say that probably the vast majority of people who’ve followed this story believe a lot of things that haven’t been proven and that originate with unnamed sources talking to the MSM, or “experts” or pundits not paying attention to what we actually know and what we don’t. Haven’t we learned from previous experience not to trust those initial reports, especially anonymous ones, and to suspend harsh judgment until a lot more is known? And doesn’t that take time?
I’ve been asking a lot of questions as I try to sort it out. One of the things I’ve been waiting for is to hear from school police chief Arredondo. Well, now wait no more. You are free to think he’s lying through his teeth in his description of the ordeal, of course. But I think he just might be telling the truth.
There should be other witnesses to this and I hope we hear from them. So far I’m not sure of the extent of the video evidence, but I recall reading that there was a hall video that was of very poor quality and investigators are studying it and trying to enhance it.
Here’s the story that emerges based on Arredondo’s interview [emphasis mine]. You shouldn’t be surprised to hear that it differs from the story we “know” in many key details, as well as expanding on some parts of that story (such as getting the key):
[The classroom door] was sturdily built with a steel jamb, impossible to kick in.
He wanted a key. One goddamn key and he could get through that door to the kids and the teachers. The killer was armed with an AR-15. Arredondo thought he could shoot the gunman himself or at least draw fire while another officer shot back. Without body armor, he assumed he might die.
“The only thing that was important to me at this time was to save as many teachers and children as possible,” Arredondo said.
So according to Arredondo he was willing to die, but couldn’t get in. But what about getting body armor, and getting the all-important key? Why did that take so long? I think a lot of people have gotten the impression from the coverage so far that the Uvalde cops weren’t even trying to get the key, and that it was the BorTac officers who overrode that order to stay put, and that it then was a simple matter to get it from the janitor. Arredondo says not so (and you’ll read more about those keys later, in another quote):
He called for tactical gear, a sniper and keys to get inside, holding back from the doors for 40 minutes to avoid provoking sprays of gunfire. When keys arrived, he tried dozens of them, but one by one they failed to work.
“Each time I tried a key I was just praying,” Arredondo said. Finally, 77 minutes after the massacre began, officers were able to unlock the door and fatally shoot the gunman.
I assume that “tactical gear” is body armor and/or ballistic shields. But Arredondo is saying they would have gone in without them had they been able to get the door open. . . . .
He noted that some 500 students from the school were safely evacuated during the crisis…
Whether the inability of police to quickly enter the classroom prevented the 21 victims — 19 students and two educators — from getting life-saving care is not known, and may never be. There’s evidence, including the fact that a teacher died while being transported to the hospital, that suggests taking down the shooter faster might have made a difference. On the other hand, many of the victims likely died instantly. A pediatrician who attended to the victims described small bodies “pulverized” and “decapitated.” Some children were identifiable only by their clothes and shoes.
Devastating and heartbreaking, but not surprising. It doesn’t sound as though many children could have been saved even if the police could have gotten in sooner, but it would be good to know and we don’t know. But – was it possible to have gotten in sooner?
We still need to know so much more. It’s not difficult, though, to imagine the extreme frustration and desperation that was being experienced by the police themselves – some of whom had children in those classrooms. That was one of the reasons the “cowardly and uncaring police sitting on their asses” narrative never made sense to me and still doesn’t.
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according to the views provided by the local paper the rooms that the kids and the gunman were in had windows that opened to the outside.
If you can open a schoolroom door with a key, you can shoot the lock out.
Don’t believe me? Look on YouTube or equivalent video site and watch videos about 5.65mm penetration on steel plates.
So what does this imply about the rest of Arredondo’s spiel?
The idea that you can, QUOTE “shoot da lock out” UNQUOTE is really just a fantasy. Breaching is a very specific tactic and the lock is not what is shot out. That’s one more thing people get wrong about this incident. Oh, BTW these were up-armored doors.
“So what does this imply about the rest of Arredondo’s spiel?”
It implies that he knows a bit about what he’s talking about and it implies that you did not read the linked story in any detail if at all.
Do you really know the make-up of “school” doors?
Hint: The word “up-armored” is not in the description.
Yes, I have designed several schools.
And a Justice Center-Prison.
FWIW, when breaching a door, of which I have done over a dozen times, the latch is what is shot, and the latch is part of the lock.
“Breaching is a very specific tactic and the lock is not what is shot out.”
Yes, I knew that. The bar that extrudes from the lock into the door frame is what is breached.
The question is could that have been done? Could the bar have been severed? The answer is Yes.
The idea that the door couldn’t have been breached without a key is false.
Furthermore, how did the guy who actually shot the killer and ended the massacre get into the room?
I’m assuming that he didn’t have a key. Did he have a frame charge and blow a hole in the wall to enter?
Or maybe, just maybe he shot the lock out(assuming the bar which comes out of the lock and extrudes into the door jamb is technically part of the lock)
Typically the walls that support the door frame are poured concrete or laid concrete block with concrete filled cells. The door frame is steel channel 8″ x 2″ with steel moveable tabs that are embedded in the poured concrete or placed between the courses of blocks. Removing the door frame from it’s embedment is not readily possible.
The door blank itself can be either solid core wood or steel clad fiberglass, each with a specific fire code rating, typically 1 hour or better. Each door has specific hardware and not all doors have locking mechanisms. Doors that do have locking mechanisms are typically of the single throw type with extended bolt. The bolt extends further into the jamb affording more security. The locks are typically keyed entry from the outside and thumbturn on the inside.
The breaching process is done with a 12 gauge shotgun with double aught buckshot (8 .33 BB’s) that is fired at the areas just adjacent to the locking mechanism. It can take several shots depending. The lock latch is firmly inserted into the receiver on the jamb, so, by removing the material around the locking mechanism the latch can be removed from the receiver and the door swung open.
Because the jamb, door facing, and the lock are metal firing double aught buckshot directly at those things is inherently dangerous due to ricochet. I have seen a steel funnel that mounts to the muzzle of the breach gun that helps contain the ricochet as the muzzle is placed firmly against the surface.
This action could also be done with an AR type gun (5.56) but would require several shots or more because the penetration holes would be smaller.
If you have a deadbolt lock on your own home (and you should) open the door and study how the lock works with the receiver to understand how breaching can happen. It’s not rocket surgery. Even a caveman can do it. But not cowardly, obese gov’t employees as proven time and time again.
Didn’t read the story, eh? Arredondo says they tried three different sets of keys before they finally found the ring with the right key. It seems the school had not standardized the locks.
Not Neo’s best. It’s educational how disfunctional bureaucratized police forces are.
Remember that Rabbi down south held hostage by the latest Islamic nutter? The FIB sent their hostage rescue team down from the center of the universe. 48 members. At least they got their lone nutter. Fortunately they weren’t occupied invesigating a garage door handle at NASCAR.
Good Old Neo… Nutting out and nitpicking away at the details and itty bitty small stuff whilst studiously averting her eyes from any Big Picture which isn’t immediately and obviously bad for her people. Can discourse all the live-long day upon what may or may not have happened in Uvalde, but mention Chuck Schumer and Larry Fink in the same paragraph and it’s down the memory hole your post and in some (heh) cases you yourself go.
As for the Federal Bureau of Inquisitors busting out the A-Team for the Rabbi, I have visions of getting myself a Nobel Prize in Economics (yep.. I know it’s not quite a real Nobel) for something about Revealed Preferences.
Not that there’s anything wrong with that ™. As a Reactionary, I’m all for Hierarchy. Just needs some additions, subtractions, and re-arrangements.
Mirrors upon lies upon mirrors upon lies upon mirrors upon lies. What do we really know about the Uvalde shooting? I mean the actual facts on the ground? Nothing. All is hearsay, propaganda, misinformation, disinformation, contrived, confected. So to paraphrase Pilate: “What is truth?”
Who knows? Trying to find reality makes me dizzy. It is easier just to relax into HBO and Netflix and Disney, and to conform to their world view.
Wake me when it’s over.
Lock picking lawyer on U-tube would have had that lock open in under a minute. My son can do it in three.
Stealth opening precludes a loud method. Shooting the lock is a movie trope.
This quiet method would be essential to maintaining tactical surprise.
Anyone, especially a police agency, can get a lock pick set for under $20. This excuse of not having the proper key is flimsy at best.
Lock picking lawyer can do it when he doesn’t know what’s on the other side of that door except that it may be a guy with a rifle? Hey, *any* PD can afford picks. Can they afford to teach someone and have them do it under pressure?
Yes yes and yes. The door lock is picked with a wedge in place to prevent the bad guy inside kicking it open. Takes a bit of courage, no doubt. Next send in the robot or camera or drone if you are not sure where the suspect is. Howabout a backup peeking in through a window? Then go in hard. Or do nothing, like these fellers seemed to have done and make pathetic excuses after the fact. If I can face down a very agitated gun waver, as I did for free not three days ago, these boys can do it for pay. And I wasn’t even armed or badged nor was I wearing any body armor. Sheesh.
Breaching with a 223/556 is what a retard would do. Breaching is done with a shotgun shooting Avon rounds, a ceramic round designed to shear the bolting mech. I’ve got some experience shooting a breaching shotgun into doors.
The most practical is to breach at the hinges, not the doorknob. A shotgun with a two-inch stand-off device attached to the barrel’s end, with slots so debris doesn’t foul the barrel.
While I’m admittedly not an expert I have done perhaps two dozen doors over my 27 years. The breaching shotgun is a secondary weapon, that is usually not used after the breach, and entry weapons are used after the doors are blown.
Commands used to be, “Breacher up,” from stick leader. Breacher announces “Breeching” then two shots, one top hinge, and one lower hinge. If three hinges are present the third round from command to execution is mere seconds. Breachers will then fall in at the back of the stick, for making entry.
A hooligan tool is always present to pry the hinged side if required. In fact, the breeching device on the end of the shotgun is very similar to a “ Duckbill”, but it’s not a duck bill. A duckbill is crimped on the end to spread shot, not capable of shooting slugs or avons.
I’m told new rounds are being used. A softer metal that won’t cause shrapnel from entering the room being breached.
It is critical to understand that military breaching is in many ways different from a police breach. Objectives are the same, the stated goals are different. Police want zero sprawl entering the hostages’ area.
Hope this helps you to understand
I posted this link several days ago because I thought it was so similar to Sandy Hook. This video shows some diligent research that there exists not one public record of a birth certificate of any of these “killed” Uvalde children. Most of them were age 10 and 11 and supposedly every one of them died on May 24, 2022. The video has a very obnoxious booming soundtrack, no narration, so hit the mute button immediately. However, this is the identical Sandy Hook playbook in that none of the Connecticut kids’ births could be proven. Then the school building was reduced to rubble and taken to the landfill. There will be no videos of anything that happened, inside and out, at the Uvalde elementary school. I don’t have any energy to spend considering why the door wasn’t breached or anything these flakey cops have to say about anything. https://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2022/06/no-birth-record-for-any-of-the-uvalde-massacre-child-victims-connect-the-dots-must-see-video-3774270.html
Also interesting is the proposed demolition of the school!
What I want to know is how did this 18 YO buy the guns and ammo. Something stinks here and although we are getting dribs and drabs of info about what the cops did or did not do we get zippo about who financed this disaster. There IS a story there but there is a huge effort to keep that story under wraps.
You know the same folks who orchestrated the JFK hit are behind this operation, too, don’t you know? The spooks aren’t going to admit they groomed this freak, bought him a new truck, loaded him up with these expensive toys and ammo… but those are his benefactors. This kid threatened to shoot up his school four years ago, it was in the news, and the spooks kept his number. There’s a video he shot holding a clear plastic bag of bloody dead cats… laughing about it. Local kids say he’s been torturing and killing neighborhood pets forever. This story is not under wraps… it’s simply avoided by the fake news empire. No huge effort applied if they say nothing.
Sitting here thinking about the situation is easier than being there with all the confusion and lack of leadership however I have read that all of the firemen had shown up and they do have a lot of stuff to tear cars and buildings apart I wonder if an angle grinder could have cut right through the bolt on the door and why not go through both doors since they were adjoining classrooms with a connecting door between them. If you need to protect the firemen from bullets through the door why not turn some teacher desks over to give a bit of protection from bullets through the door. I have shot a lot of 5.56 and it is fast but small and tends to blow apart when it hits something, it is minimal for shooting deer and not allowed in some states, not much good for hogs either. When they talk about it decapitating those who were shot and kids shot up beyond recognition I am puzzled, I never shot at people but I have shot about a dozen deer, some coyotes, hogs, lots of rabbits and other critters and that’s not the way bullets work, even much more powerful bullets. It seems as if the Uvalde event was Murphy’s Law intersecting with the Peter Principal and it cost a lot of innocent people their lives. Could it also be a factor where the initial confrontation outside of the school might have involved decisions where individual cops did not want to be the person who killed a diversity person even though that person had a gun?
If its true that the door could have been breached, then the rest would have not been a problem. First, you kick the door wide open but dont enter the doorway. The shooter would have instantly reacted by firing at the door, revealing his position in the room.
Then, one cop, while under cover, (blindly) unloads his entire clip in the general direction of the shooter. If the shooter isnt hit, he will have dropped to the floor or will be shaking uncontrollably from fear. Whatever the case, he is far less dangerous to the first cop thru the breach.
Then, some cop has to go thru the door and shoot him. But now the odds greatly favor the cop. Remember, the shooter is someone who apparently couldnt handle the stress of high school or the real world. How is he going to deal with the reality of nine real bullets coming at him and nine loud bangs.
BTW, this scenario took me about five seconds to generate in my own mind the instant I learned about the problem of the door. I’m sure cops have this same grasp of the situation
You don’t know that the doors open outward, not inward, but yeah. Kick that sucker.
Blindly unload your entire clip into a room that has a bunch of kids in it. You don’t know where they are, they could be standing in a circle around the shooter. Fire away!
While you’re at it make some highly suspicious assumptions about the shooter’s mental state. Genius!
Sorry, fire at a level that higher than the children heads. The whole point is to put the shooter in a panic so its safe for another cop to enter the door space
And whats off base about my assumptions about mass shooters of school children. Every last one of them have been pathologically weak, picked upon losers who have failed at everything and have withdrawn from reality itself. Some 99% of humanity would panic at bullets flying at their persons, so Im guessing the weakest people of all would panic as well
It’s early and I’m not thinking on all fours but if 500 people were safely evacuated during the crisis they must have had to exit via some port. If that’s the case, why didn’t the police enter through said port?
Read the freaking story. The cops were outside the classroom within a few minutes. The problem was how to get in to the classroom, not the school.
So, the authorities wished to avoid “sprays of gunfire” aimed 4 feet off the ground towards an inanimate object. So, how does this pose a greater danger to children who are lying on the ground or are huddled behind desks or seats than a psychopath who is walking around the classroom non chalantly shooting at them until he is certain that they are dead. Wouldnt you at least want the shooter to waste ammo on the door?
This is one of those non explanation phrases that sounds reasonable .. until one subjects it to some indepedent reality based thinking. It reminds me of the ole “crossfire” argument where our intellectual superiors point out that even if there had been a “good guy with a gun” (scare quotes theirs) it would subject the mass shooting targets to even greater danger due to the “crossfire”(my scare quotes) it would create
Once again, how is a “crossfire” between a gun owner and a active shooter more dangerous than a shooter non chalantly gunning down every person in a given room, who are helpless to stop it
First of all, the “crossfire” would always be initiated by the (cue sneer of the superior ones) “good guy” who would get the drop on the bad guy and cross him off the list of humanity with three round. And even if that failed, the shooter would be obliged to take cover and shoot only at the GooGWAG .. and how is that more dangerous to the other people in the room than a psychopath leisurely shooting until everyone in the room is dead
Of course everyone here knows this instinctively. Im just trying to give you the words to persuade that wobbly middle of the roader. OBTW, Im also anonymous guy
One more comment. How is the fact that the shooter was armed with an AR15 even relevant? Does anyone really think that if the shooter was armed only with a standard 13mm pistol with, say, a 13 round magazine that this would have saved the lives of any of those children, given that he was given 45 minutes to accomplish his deed
Of course not. All an assault rifle does is extend the range of a submachine gun. The Germans invented the first assault rifle, the Sturmgeber44 to patch a hole in their weaponry. The MP40 Schmeisser lacked range in open terrain; their combat rifle was bolt action and outgunned by the M1. The MP40 was still preferred for house to house. Indeed, the US created a limited range weapon sub, the MP3 for close in house to house fighting. Indeed an MP40 or M-3 were preferable at close range because they are less unwieldy
All the killing at Uvalde was at point blank range. You could have killed the same number of children with a couple of snub nosed .38 pistols
The only relevance of his weapon is “How the hell could he have afforded these weapon system from part time burger flipping job? And if his unemployed drug addicted mother somehow financed it, how did that pass a background check. And why is nobody in authority even asking these questions
You’re about 1/3 right. The type of firearm doesn’t matter. He had enough time to do all the killing with a flintlock.
You think you know what point blank range is, but your answer suggests you don’t. Try using “close range” instead.
It is a good question where he got the money for the guns. We don’t know. I have known teens who worked hard and saved pennies and graduated high school with a surprising amount of money.
Probably got his money from Biden’s $600 Covid unemployment checks that went to anybody who wanted one.
At 18 he can legally buy a rifle and rifle ammunition. If he has no felonies or domestic violence claims on his record, or a few other things like renouncing your citizenship, then he would have passed the FBI instant background check. He would have had to lie on the form about not being shithouse crazy, but in current times that is purely subjective. After all some parents take their children to drag queen shows.
It had to be an AR15. Whoever supplied this mentally ill nut with the gun knew what they were doing. It is an election year and 22 school shooting deaths by an AR15 is the gold ticket to getting gun control and a chance at reelection. If it had been any other gun the kids and teachers would be just as dead but the optics wouldn’t quite be right. It had to be the dreaded AR15 assault rifle. Ditto for the NY shooter. We are being played. Somewhere out there is a “FBI informant” who is now in deep cover and all connections with the shooter are being scrubbed.
By the way what ever happened to that black kid that got a gun and shot the guy that he was fighting with in school? Nothing! Silence. Crickets chirping. Wrong race, wrong weapon, nothing to see here.
Danged if I know, but the whole thing sounds Fast and Curious.
CYA all the way..
Read the following:
I was their Sergeant and two blocks away from the school when this occurred. Irma and her partner went through a door and killed the shooter. Irma was killed and her partner Officer Jaglowski was wounded in both legs. This was similar to the Texas shooting in that the offender had shot and killed a person at another location and then decided to kill as many people as he could. He entered the school through an unlocked rear door. It was graduation day and the school was filled with family, students, and teachers. Officers Ruiz and Jaglowski had seconds to act, they did not wait for orders, they did not stand outside looking at the front door, they radioed for assistance as they went through the door and killed the shooter.
So much is not known. Neo is right about that. I disagree with Neo in her assumption that Arredondo and his spokesmen are telling gospel truth. We don’t know that, and frankly he’s got a ton of reasons to at least shade it, if not lie outright.
Very few will ever know the truth, we will know what THEY want us to know.
A whole lot of lying going on.
Between the gov’t and the media, 99% lies, 1% truth.
I’m thinking a truck or car could open the door, but I wasn’t there. If my kid was in harms way, I’d find a way in.
If it was our kid he wouldn’t be there. Oh that’s right, he wasn’t, we educated him ourselves. At about age 12 I educated him in how to lock and load. 30 years later he and his wife are educating our first grand daughter.
DSPerry, I feel your pain.
This was a shit show beginning to end.
I support the cops stopping parents from entering.
Yet I admire the bravery of EVERY Parent willing to enter.
Unlike my brothers and sister in Blue, who made incredibly poor choices.
Clearly things could have and should have been handled much differently
Dirk sed: “Clearly things could have and should have been handled much differently”
They will continue to get worse and worse.
Worse is what the gov’t does best.
Reminds me of what President Reagan once said, “I’m here from the government and I’m here to help”.
Would someone tell me when the government ever told the truth? I do hear through the grapevine that the government is pretty good at mushroom farming.
Why didn’t someone try to shoot him through the window? Was it too high off the ground? Could they have pulled a car up and elevated from behind that? What about a good sniper shot from someone outside standing on something taller–picnic table–playground slide? Wasn’t there some way to shoot from outside?
Another question: Why did the entire police squad not have their vests? Where were the vests? You cannot just blow this aspect off!! Why didn’t ANYONE have a vest?
Why were they even there?
The common body armor worn by police departments will only stop a pistol round. Vest or not, a 5.56mm round will zip through most police department body armor.
Hard plates are in most modern police vehicles anymore. Mine are four pounds each, will stop 556, 308, etc etc, capabilities. Plates are a luxury. I rarely wore armor, I had it and understood the possibilities of my choice.
Plates and armor are not a factor here, most poopoo I know would gladly sacrifice their lives for a child, or 500.
Do not misunderstand this is a MANAGEMENT failure. This is a TRAINING failure. Police academies are teaching police to stand by and await supervision before doing anything.
While it means zero, I see that something evil has taken over. Police academies are given curricula by Chiefs of Police State Sheriffs Assn and other legislative entities. Basically, men and women who’ve sucked their way to the top were mostly piss poor street cops. I’ve dealt with them my entire career. Zero respect for any of them.
Bottom-level street cops MUST engage the threat, with or without support. In a fight, the cop has to fight smart, not just smart. A 100 yrs ago I worked for a Sheriff named Bruce Mix, in Modoc County Ca, the guy stood five ft two, with his cowboy boots,
On my first day there he provided me with a mini 14 with selector switch, semi-three round, and auto, ten-thirty round mags. I was jazzed. It’s what he said that stuck with me to this day.
“ Dirk, you’re a resident Deputy, In Newell, you have zero back-ups, you get in the shit, stay calm, shoot straight, I’ve given you enough ammo and mags to keep their heads down. We’ll be along eventually, so don’t worry.
Solid advice for every lawman. Fight but manage your tools. I’ve retired 14 yrs now, I remember how it was, how it still should be, not this hide behind your squad vehicle awaits supervisor nonsense.
I recall more than five times but less than 100 times being badly outnumbered by bad guys. The policeman’s most important tool is what’s between his or her ears. Nothing wrong with thinking and working outside the box.
Will the men who stood in the hallway get fired from their jobs?
They will get an award for selfless bravery, a promotion, and a $100/week raise in pay.
You know better than to ask such a silly question Anne! (wink)
I know you are right! 🙂
I was just hoping for something positive to come out of this!
This is laughable. The writer just takes the Chiefs word about what he did. This is all bullcrap.