The Top 40

This is such a stretch. Life is SOOOO complicated it needed a "god" tocreate it. Yet by implication "god" is so much more complex and somehow it just "happened"! Does anyone else see a flaw in this arguement?

"In the beginning..."
First means first, as in nothing came before it. Nothing.

Odd how hard it is to wrap your mind around that concept.

JWM

When they can explain what made the Big Bang go Boom, I'll start paying attention.

If matter is capable of life, then matter is not what physicists think it is.

In fact, if physicists are capable of thought, then thought is not what physicists think it is.

Uh folks, I don't know, you don't know, nobody knows. After that there are many possibilities and a supreme being makes more sense than "nothing". Who created science?

reasons.org

I am pretty certain that eventually some sort of deist evolution system is going to be adapted, once the hardcore evolutionist generation dies out. Say, 50 years or so.

And Gonewiththewind, what would we have now, if there was ever nothing?

I would e happy to answer your question if I understood it. Can you be more specific?

Its a pretty simple question: if there ever was nothing, nothing whatsoever, what would there be now?

The answer is... nothing. Because you cannot get something out of nothing. If there ever was a time when nothing existed, nothing whatsoever, there never would be anything at all.

So the whole "it just happened" line is nonsense from a scientific and common sense viewpoint. It can't have just happened, something had to be there to start it.

So there has to be something eternal, something with the property of self existence, from which all other things came. We know it cannot be the universe because of several laws of physics and observation of the universe.

In other words, it makes less sense and takes more faith to NOT believe in God than to believe in the existence of some theistic creator.

The statement "if there ever was nothing" is confusing. But I do get what you are asking now which is apparently somene in your past claimed that the universe started from nothing. I have to confess I have never heard that claim. As I understand it all of the matter in the universe was compressed into the smallest space possible. That is I'm sure you will agree not "nothing". Then the big bang occurred and the universe expanded. As it expanded elements were formed and elements combined and created compounds etc. in other words all of the known material was created as this massive expansin took place. I would like to think you have herd this before in school perhaps or in your reading. Why and exactly how this happens is unknown. It doesn't have to be known for it to still be a fact. We looked at the evidence and this theory is the one that suports the evidence.
But I think what you were really getting at is how was life created. Again I would think you would have learned this in school or from your reading. It isn't a mystery. You may choose not to believe it but in fact evolution is very logical, is supported by the facts and is quite obvious once you study it. Not a "theistic creator" but rather a mathematical certainty. acience isn't theology it is essentially mathematical. If you have a substance made up of two atoms of hydrogen and one atom of oxygen it will be water. Because of the interrelationship between the atomic building blocks that is what it becomes. Prior to the Big Bang it was all plasma; that is what matter is under very high energy state. There ws no "god" to turn plasma into a more ordered state and if there were a "god" there was no place for him to sit or stand and make it happen. I will concede this one point in your favor; it would certainly be possible after the big bang for an early or a superior life force to be created that could at some point be powerful enough to "create" something we might call "life". If THAT is what you mean by "god" then I don't have a problem with that. We too create life by simply usng the basic building blocks created after the bing bang, we too are superior beings. But we are not gods (in my opinion).
For there to have been a "god" to create all "this" there would have had to already been a "this" that created the "god". If you stil insist that all life was the result of intelligent design that you have to accept that the "god" who created us was in turn created by a superior "god" who was in turn created by a superior "god" who... ad infinitum. There is simply no other possibility under the "god" theory. THAT truely takes more then faith it takes ignorance. You would have to make believe that the "god" simply was or appeared one day UNLESS the ony logical and believeable choice is that another "god" created your "god". And of course then as I have said you are trapped by the existence of infinit number of ever more owerful "gods" with no possible answer or explanation of how the first one (of course if there is an infinite number there is no "first one".) So in fact is takes and infinite amount more faith to believe in "god" then it does in mathematics.
One additional point; one theory is that the big bank is a cyclical thing and after a certain number of billions of years the expansion stops and all matter again collapses on itself and triggers another big bang and the whole thing begins again. Probably after 13,798 milion years another planet will have been formed with the right temperatures, basic elements and distance to a star that life as we know it (or even life as we don't know it) will form again following the mathematical rules implicit in the basic building blocks of all matter. I don't really know but I am sure or two things in this theory: 1. there will be evolution. 2. At some point the intelligence of the life form will be great enough to ponder "why" and some will declare that a "god" created it all.

Great theory GWTW - Here's mine. "Because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things." Romans 1:21-23