“In the technical sense, in the economic definition, Obama is not a socialist. He’s a corporatist. -- Ron Paul
Well, excuse me, Ron, you ignorant slut, but the two are not mutually exclusive. Indeed, they've been cozy before not too long ago. It was called "National Socialism" then. Quite the linkage between the corporations and the socialists. At least, at the beginning.
Posted by Vanderleun at April 11, 2010 8:28 PM
Maybe Paul will see the socialist when Paul runs out of money?
Posted by: David C McKinnis at April 11, 2010 9:33 PMI went to gun shows when I was a kid. All across the west. From 1983-84, I remember the "Ron Paul White Power Report."
It was a xeroxed and stapled screed of anti-semetic, anti-"Mudpeople" racism. It was handed out, invariably, by bearded whackos in suspenders and camouflage fishing hats with the admonition "Wake up, White People!"
The trash barrels overflowed with them, at the gun shows. It later became the "Power Report" and finally the "Survival Report". I, naturally, assumed Ron Paul was some kind of "LaRouche-y" or "Bircher" kook.
Imagine my surprise when I found out he's now a congressman.
I can't believe anyone listens to him. I can't believe he mounted a "credible" campaign for president. We elected his photo-negative to president. We are in dark times, and I don't mean that in the Ron Paul White Power Report way.
Posted by: Gray at April 11, 2010 10:27 PMObama couldn't be a National Socialist. He's not nationalistic enough.
Posted by: Brett_McS at April 12, 2010 12:41 AMSoetoro is a corporatist, but Ron Paul doesn't know what corporatism is.
Corporatism, otherwise known as fascism, is a form of economic organization in which the State does not own the means of production, but in which decisions are made not by the market, but by the organic bodies of the State.
In corporatist fascism, as in Sweden for example, decisions about wages are made neither by the free market nor by the government, but by boards and panels on which the labor unions, company management, and the government are represented.
The "corporations" referred to in corporatism are not just joint-stock companies, they are more importantly the labor unions, guilds, and other associations. All of these bodies form organic parts of the State, which is conceived as a living body or "corporation" itself.
Direction of the State is controlled by the head, i.e. the pointy-headed intellectuals who comprise the bureaucratic nomenklatura. No wonder they love Soetoro.
The economic system proposed by Soetoro, in which control comes from the State, although ownership may still reside with intellectuals, is not socialism (in which the State owns everything) but fascism or National Socialism.
Posted by: Punditarian at April 12, 2010 3:01 AMInteresting. I always thought he was an international socialist.
Whatever.
They're all of the fascist totalitarian stripe on the Left. Americans need to be educated about this one fact.
Posted by: Western Chauvinist at April 12, 2010 8:12 AMA few FACTS about Ron Paul (and the Libertarians)
1. They own "LIBERTY"!
Before Ron Paul there was no liberty. It didn't exist yet. And without Ron Paul we will lose our Liberty again. So if you don't support RP you are against Liberty! Once again: Liberterians own LIBERTY. They invented it
2. Liberterian Values and Principles
(aka Ron Paulism) like Freedom, Justice, Personal Liberty, Representative Government, the American Way, ect.. where created by the Libertarians (and Ron Paul) when they came to this country in the 1400's.
3. The Libertarian Party was founded
in Texas on December 11, 1471 (not 1971 like it says in Wikipedia) which was 22 years before Columbus sailed for America, and 305 years before the Declaration of Independence in 1776. The Libertarians were the first Americans.
4. George Washington had a 3rd degree Black Belt in Libertarianism!
5. George W. Bush, George HW. Bush, and Ronald Reagan were not Libertarians.
Posted by: carpenter at April 12, 2010 2:54 PMI think what Dr. Paul was meaning, was in the sense of Corporatism being equivalent to Fascism.
Fascism here, being defined is the as private property remaining in private hands, but being subject to governmental regulations and / or control.
We now have corporations driving the growth of government. Have you noted in your city & state how few businesses exist that are small, "Smith & Sons" shops ? Here in Texas, there are fewer & fewer of these type small shops. But the large corporations keep in growing huge year by year.
What this portends is the death of the personal & family enterprise. It should most certainly concern us. It is due to a generally incestuous relationship between big government & big corporations.
Do you agree or disagree that such a regulatory apparatus exists ?
When Congress endeavors to write regulations for a newly enlarged 'umbrella', who usually helps out in writing the new regs ? More often than not, it's large corporations that already dominate their particular industry.
And true to form, the regs are undoubtedly written to help keep small operations like "Smith & Sons" / sole proprietorships - from every being able to comply.
This is what Dr. Paul meant by Obama being a 'corporatist'. He could just have well as said Fascist, but most folks can't define fascism very well.
The point is, to me, is that true free enterprise is a totally free market. No regulatory gov't agencies, no professional licensure run by the state (really a revival of medieval 'Guilds' that dominated & controlled professions for centuries) and so forth.
Thus, no barriers to full employment that would bless & benefit, in time, all workers & business owners of any economic status.
If you want to know the appeal Dr Ron Paul has, it's that he's honest about the failure of the GOP to do anything substantive about reigning in the growth of big government.
He's upfront in the admission that the GOP wants a Warfare state while admitting the Dems want a Welfare state - and that neither option works if we want a truly free, Liberty loving society.
As a Christian Constitutional Conservative - Reagan was my boyhood hero - Ron Paul is the 'real deal' - he's got his flaws - who doesn't - but overall, he's 90 % on target.
Because his views make the 'beltway' crowd - be they Left-Collectivists or Right-Collectivists, nervous as they see their paychecks - government, banking, or corporate statist as waning if a true limited government movement were to gain steam.
The Nanny State is collapsing of it's own weight - Ron Paul, and the 10's of thousands he's helped educate & encourage, is just the current prophet announcing the inevitable.
I invite you to read more at www.LewRockwell.com which is free-market, anti-State, anti-Collectivist & respectful of a Christian worldview.
And, by the way, Ross Perot did have my attention, too. Both he & Dr. Paul are both mavericks to the establishment view.
Thanks for your comments and for considering all these ideas.
Samuel Adams, Jr.
PS: The commentor who disparaged Dr. Paul's Journal would have to show one, to prove it. I subscribed to his 'Ron Paul Survival Report' for 5 years or so, and never saw a hint of racism in any issue. It was devoted to free market capitalism (as I've described above), and hard money investing.
It's quite likely you saw some other crazy stuff and conflated the two. Dr. Paul is nothing, if not consistent, and I can't imagine that type of garbage coming from him.
Posted by: Samuel Adams, Jr. at April 13, 2010 5:25 PM
It would do well to point out that Dr. Paul said:
"in the economic sense..." as opposed to the political sense.
Yes, politically, one could ask: is Obama a Socialist or Fascist ? Those are more descriptive of politics.
Also, forget for a moment about Obama - he's the key bad actor now, but what about the system itself ?
Is it a socialist or fascist system ? I say Fascist as socialist is more obvious, Fascism is far more covert - it is cleverly disguised, which explains why the average American feels free, but are totally subject to government control in every single aspect of their lives - all the while barely acknowleding it.
We have come to 'love our chains'.
The GOP (I mean it's 'insiders', not rank & file grassrots) has long ago ceased to be 'Republican' in it's guiding philosophy - which would rely upon & support the Rule of Law, and INSIST upon limited government - it has not done so in my lifetime.
Instead, it is obsessed with insider benefits. This is simply a different form of Control & Welfare from that which animates the Democrats.
If this is not so, please explain the fact that GWB, with GOP control of all branches & both houses, grew government 3x as large as under Clinton, while cutting nary a program or budget.
Not a single promise to cut spending or programs was realized - by a party that talks of it constantly ! They must think we 'worker-bee' Republican voters are as blind and obtuse as they are, not to notice this.
The GOP is thus, guided by insider cronyism - and thus hates Ron Paul and any thought of having it's power limited by law, or of having to value Liberty for the individual citizen as much as for their favored groups.
Here's a comment made about our system on another blog, I thought it was quite apropos:
"...It will be very hard for any effective organization to happen. There are many Agencies in the U.S. with American Citizen as Employees hired to watch the rest of us. (survelliance state)
Over 100,000,000,000 (100 billion) is spent each year of taxpayer money to ‘watch over us”.
Lets get realistic here. We are already living in an oppressed society, it is done in the most sneaky of ways, and then they train all of us to believe we are a free people.
We live entirely under a Plutocratic Dictatorial Fascism. This is where a few corporations are married to the government, in other words, they own the government. They take OUR MONEY and use it to suppress us. Its actually a beautiful plan and it works well for those very few that run this country (and they are truly parasitic)..."
Very accurate observation - it expands on what Dr. Paul said, that you apparently stumbled over understanding.
This reality is why both parties are losing support by the day. Thank the LORD, Patriots are waking up to the fact that we really have only one party, the Party of Big Government !
To fool the populace & gain control, 'The Party of Big Government' wears two (apparently) opposing masks, but shares two common goals:
1) Increase of Government Power - at all costs.
2) Diminish essential Liberty of all Americans, thus increasing Government dependencies.
Thus, our country is sold out, Liberty is destroyed, and Americans lose hope daily.
What is the solution ?
Self-Government, under God, must be re-invigorated in the hearts & minds of our people.
Read the Declaration, the Constitution, the Founding Fathers, Patrick Henry's 'Give Me Liberty' speech, read the book that inspired it all, the Bible.
Seek for Wisdom above all else, and heaven will unfold to you the Truth.
If you want to REALLY understand the Founding Fathers, read the Pilgrim & Puritan Colonials, who were the Founding Fathers, founding fathers !
Try this amazing test: Switch off your TV for 30 days ! REFUSE to be programmed via the media in any form. Join with other citizens, and ignore the political party heirarchy - they're wolves.
Your conscience will respond by coming to it's senses - God be praised, you'll come alive. Partisan programming will not 'stick'...the lies and half truths will fall like scales from your eyes.
Your servant for Liberty & His,
Samuel Adams, Jr.
A KISS for you all:
Have you forgotten His promotion of infanticide for botched abortion survivors, or forgotten His countenancing of a bloody civil war twixt Iraqi Sunnis and Shia as a result of His promotion, back in 2007, of an immediate, premature withdrawal of USA troops from Iraq.
And most recently, His promotion of Death Panel managed democide (even Paul Krugman recently said as much) surely puts Him in the category of psychopathic, sociopathic, megalomanic, anti-American traitor, and fawning soulless ghoul, when, in addtion, all of his repeated lies and destruction of Constitutional principles, as well as soaring stupidities in the political sphere are rolled out.
Have you noticed that when he stands before a mirror there is no reflection of a human being, only an empty suit.
Ron Paul is a saint compared to His Grand Perversion.
Posted by: FamouslyUnknown at April 17, 2010 1:00 PM"It is impossible to speak in such a way that you cannot be misunderstood." -- Karl Popper N.B.: Comments are moderated to combat spam and may not appear immediately. Comments that exceed the obscenity or stupidity limits will be either edited or expunged.
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