Absolutely correct.

Right. Our idiot compatriots require a round or two of shock therapy if they're ever going to snap out of it.

Yep, "let it burn" seems to be the order of the day. My question though is who are the Dems doing all this for? Does Obama plan to repeal term limits for the President? So far, I don't see who they plan to run in 2016.

The only way to fight back is to build from the local level, through the state level and let the national level party fail until you reach critical mass to make a difference there.

Don't see it? Well, think about this.... President Michelle Obama.

(a follow-on comment posted on the occulus thread)

MAKE THE LEFT OWN IT, OWN IT ALL.

My friend Jim earlier responded to my idea saying:

What if the Republicans in Congress just tell Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi and the Pres to work among themselves and come up with their grand solution to the debt crisis with the understanding that all Republicans will abstain so the Dem plan can go through unopposed before the end of the year.

All of a sudden the bad old Republicans are no longer the party of no, and the Dems can't sucker them into shutting down the government. But they aren't compromising their principles either, because there is no agreed upon "grand bargain". The Republicans merely say to the American people what they have been telling them for the past five years: The Dem plan will make a bad situation immeasurably worse, and that Republicans will be watching to pick up the pieces when the inevitable failure comes.

Most of us believe that the Dem plan will result in complete economic disaster, and so do I. Passing that plan now makes it much more likely than not that the resulting chaos will occur on the Dem watch. This gets us more quickly to the situation you advocate, i.e. that we need a virtually complete collapse for the takers to come to their senses. More, it puts responsibility squarely on ElJefe, Dingy Harry and Plastic Pelosi because it has none of the "bipartisan" bs.

This type of situation is typical in countries with a parliamentary government. The majority forms a government and generally governs without regard to the feelings of the majority. Competing philosophies of government really do compete.

Make the Dems own it, own it all. YES, precisely. The left needs our opposition, so they can continue to use that opposition as a crudgle to beat us up with, to hide behind. Don't let them.

Harry Reid says there is a mandate, reply, in this manner: We most strongly disagree with your plans and intentions. Socialism never works, and never ends well. But, since you think it is our opposition to your plan that keeps success from being achieved, have at it. We will not actively oppose your efforts, even though we most fervently disagree with your intentions. But we will not stand in your way, we abstain on principle.

Make them own it.

Truth is, the makers will survive, for the takers, which is fundamentally what this election devolved into makers vs takers, it will become a Hobbesian world. While they devolve in the snarling mass that will come, surely as the sun rises in the East, we, the makers can prepare. We can relocate into new population concentrations, and if and when succession or other steps are required/desired, we will be ready.

Let them have their hell.

President Mike? It would be worth it to see the catfight with Hillarbilly.

teresa had this correct, I believe, right from the get-go in the other thread.

In fact, rather than being in opposition, it appears to me that Bill's concept picks up in practical terms where Oculus' leaves off in philosophical terms.

My thoughts are here, if anyone's interested. Too much to cover for a comment (sorry, Gerard).

Also remember, we are STILL dealing with this phenomenon. Never forget that we should be cognizant of the root causes of what makes collectivism attractive and, therefore, effective.

Will they be voluntarily disarmed before FEMA safely relocates them to the camps?

I am almost motivated to walk up to the welfare department, go in and announce that I will no longer be paying my taxes and for their benefits and hair and nail salon subsidies.
But so few of them speak English these days, I don't think they'd understand me.

Cloward Piven from the right? Are you saying to deliberately help the system to crash?

And if so, do you expect to be the beneficiaries of the collapse? Get real. All you will be doing is finishing the job that the Left wants, and we'll be done forever.

Don Rodrigo,
I guess you did not read the post, nor Gerard's script excerpt. The USA is going down, the question is how to get there. I believe a gradual decline will accommodate the administration's efforts, as segments of the population adjust to the ever decreasing lower standard of life the reality will become. We cannot stop it, we cannot stop what this group is doing.
By actively opposing the Dems, we give Dems cover for their efforts, they can always blame repubs, "we could have done this except for Republicans yada yada yada"

The Repubs, by principled dissent "we abstain" signal they disagree, but will not stand in the way. When it crashes, and it will the difference will be that the Repubs will not be in anyway accountable, it will be totally owned by the Dems.

from those ashes, the Phoenix can rise.

My colleague Thomas Collins comments:

I would add one tweak to the proposal... I would have the House GOP
(i) agree not to stand in the way of the House passing a progressive plan, and
(ii) pass a bill with entitlement reform and tax reform.
Thus, Harry Reid would have a true reform bill (the GOP bill) and a progressive dream bill.
Then I would have the GOP Senators agree not to use parliamentary tactics to hold up the progressive dream bill that came over from the House in return for Reid publicly covenanting that he wouldn't try to change the filibuster rule.
The Dems in the Senate would then have a choice whether to send a true reform bill to POTUS for signature, or an economy tanking measure that will have only their fingerprints on it.

Remember, Arthur, FEMA is closed during inclement weather. We can prolly make a break for it then if it snows.

Lots to say on this - too much for a blog comment.

Please click my sig link below, if you're so inclined.

Sorry if this double-posts. Often the comments I submit that go into moderation here simply evaporate.

Well, now, here's another rotten development, friend! http://politichicks.tv/column/obamas-civilian-national-security-force-where-are-they/

Sandy,

I think you are probably right except for one thing: what the Repubs do will make absolutely no difference whatsoever.

The Dems will simply state it is the Repubs fault because they didn't "join in" with them to stop the crash. They will use the media - and the basic ignorance of so many Americans - to claim it was the fault of the Republicans for doing nothing to help.

So, forget that part. It just isn't going to fly.

We _will_ hit bottom. I doubt we will make it back up from bottom within the next ten years, if at all, but I could be wrong. Time will tell.

Sandy,

I think you are probably right except for one thing: what the Repubs do will make absolutely no difference whatsoever.

The Dems will simply state it is the Repubs fault because they didn't "join in" with them to stop the crash. They will use the media - and the basic ignorance of so many Americans - to claim it was the fault of the Republicans for doing nothing to help.

So, forget that part. It just isn't going to fly.

We _will_ hit bottom. I doubt we will make it back up from bottom within the next ten years, if at all, but I could be wrong. Time will tell.

Sandy,

I think you are probably right except for one thing: what the Repubs do will make absolutely no difference whatsoever.

The Dems will simply state it is the Repubs fault because they didn't "join in" with them to stop the crash. They will use the media - and the basic ignorance of so many Americans - to claim it was the fault of the Republicans for doing nothing to help.

So, forget that part. It just isn't going to fly.

We _will_ hit bottom. I doubt we will make it back up from bottom within the next ten years, if at all, but I could be wrong. Time will tell.

RegT,

I think it is of some importance that a principled dissent, a vocal & principled dissent exists. I have no doubt we will hit bottom and hit hard, but how we get there is important to me. If we, Republicans & Conservatives, actively fight the way down, we will be accused of obstruction. If we abstain, but continually reflect our opposition, and present alternative views and approaches, once there is nothing but ash, when the Phoenix rises, it can rise on the principles espoused during the fire.
~~
There will be outposts where the ideas can be nurtured, schools like Hillsdale and others, faith--as in the Catholic Church's defense of the First Amendment. We are not alone.

Also I anticipate physical relocation, as conservatives move from blue areas to the heartlands, this county map gives an idea where a remnant America could be formed, if the United States does fracture.

Am not suggesting any of this will be easy, what I am saying is that we should not be a party to it.

Let them, the democrats, own the HELL they are creating.

http://withendemanndom.blogspot.com/2012/11/doubt-in-eyes-of-great-satan.html

Don't miss it. Short.

Re-read your 1984.

When the leaders flip the switch, groupthink obeys. Yesterdays truth is tomorrows lie. No one knows how to think anymore and no one reads history. We have lost the children and now the young adults are the product of their right-think factories. Maybe some will learn after getting their noses rubbed in the filth and living in poverty and fear under the new order.
We gave them the future and they own it.

God forgive us.

Any solution that requires non-liberals to do anything more than work on their lawns and talk to each other isn't likely to work. Disagreeing with a liberal point of view, wherever you find it, isn't exactly pushing a boulder uphill. But it seems even that is too much. We have the smart people on our side suggesting the proper reaction to our enemies taking over is to just watch it happen.

Decline is a choice and the countries in Europe have already gone through this. They have conservatives, but like our own, they won't do anything to preserve their country. They think if they can find a fellow conservative and they share a "can you believe they want to do THAT do us" moment their job is done. Without resistance things just get worse faster and faster. You don't have to agree with that or like that. Until our enemies meet resistance at every turn they have no reason to even regard us as present.

Citizens in name only have turned over their freedom to leaders in name only and we aren't even sure if we should do something. This is not a matter of having the right thoughts. NFL teams don't win games by saving their energy and just winging it on game day. They lift weights, they watch game film, and they practice. Any solution proposed that makes you comfortable with doing nothing more than you've done in the past is not going to produce better results than they produced in the past.

The GOP and the DNC will always tell you the only reasonable choice is ... the citizens in name only will choose the easy choice. That is how we've gotten here. Make hard choices and ignore the complaints. The complaints will be attached to anything you choose anyway. There is no way to push back and be liked. If you are told otherwise it is a lie. It's time to stop the lies.

Sandy, Oculus, Everyone,

To much over-thinking, over-feeling going on here and leading into strange territories...if God doesn't grant you victory he grants you the opportunity to learn...what have we learned? That two powers exist now in the USA: the Power of Obama and the Power of Truth...I take this to mean that Gerard, sorry, not personal, the seeds your generation planted have come forth..."the personal is political!"; remember? The Boomer ideals have found their embodiment in Obama and his followers...look at their seamlessness...no generation gap from 18 year old voters to doddering boomers...they all think the same...they all invest the state, politics, with magical powers...call it the revenge of the McGovern 1972 Campaign staff...what to do? We've got head for the hills and damn the torpedos...but the question still remains: How do we serve the Power of Truth? For one thing by not living a totally polticized life. We owe God and ourselves a life and let us be damned if we surrender it to party politics. The strength of Republican or conservative ideas is that life is not to be dominated by politics. Now is the time to grab a really fat great novel and lose yourself in it: Ana Karenin, Moby Dick, All of Jane Austin, Dickens, or Montaign or Plutarch, the Bible, refresh yourselves at the fountains of life...Of course we're clodhopping and always a half a step behind the maniacal left; they've had 200 years of cafe bullshitting behind them; since the late 1960s they slathered their ideas on the culture and changed it around in a generation and a half; I don't think conservatives will take the kingdom by force; we are too much invested in life over politics. We like Gibson Guitars too much and titanium golf clubs and gear and hand-tied flies...I think the left only values connoisseurship in wine and pot...take a deep breath...Praise the Lord...get your sense of humor back...where was I...?

Arthurstone,

As a resident of Cascadia I can't resist asking you where you plan to get your wheat and corn in the Pacific Northwest? Wetlands? Cattails?...three months of eating bark and clams and mushrooms, I could easily envision you crying for your midwestern brethren -- or even for those from Eastern Washington -- to come back...

This is the "Detroitification" of America.

The people at the top, Obama and Jarrett and Axelrod et al, they know exactly what they are doing. They are destroying the country for the fun of watching it burn.

The idiots who voted for 4 more years of this, they are so smug right now, having voted the "right" way.

Crashing faster will be better than a slow death, but those are our only 2 options. And you know the White House will have video-equipped drones overhead, watching us die, the way they watched the men in Benghazi die. And they will laugh.

You cannot force people to change over to your side. You can only live your life the way you think it should be, and put your trust in God that others will find their way to stand with you, and that together it will be enough.

Unfortunately, this may be a difficult time. When one faction usurps the powers that We the People have granted to our government to secure the Blessings of Liberty for All of Us: to exact "revenge" upon the other factions: there will be resistance.

It's going to be bloody difficult to exhibit the kinds of successful civilized behaviors that convince anyone to cross over. They will only join with you because you have become Josey Wales.

Trade? With what? Your software has little tangible value, your wines are too expensive, and your airplanes are too big. And you don't have any oil or gas. Oh wait, I know. The plantation owners in Puget Sound will trade with apples produced by their field slaves in Yakima.

Hey Art,

They also might go to war.

As nations do.

(especially when the winners have as sneerlingly a condescending attitude toward the losers as yours)

The engine of socialism isn't fueled by liberating money from the rich and giving it to the poor. It's fueled by the ability create money from thin air to fund social programs that buy votes. If you really want to stop the engine of socialism, destroy the ability to print. Don't ask the rulers to stop printing because it is a source of power greater than a voting constituency.

Art wrote:

"Solid, hard-working god-fearing types who have little problem libeling half the population of the US as welfare pimps, parasites, statists, collectivists etc. etc. can be so...sensitive."

Change the verb "libel" to "label" and I would agree with this statement of yours. Do you deny that statists just won the presidential election? Are you ashamed of that? Why not be bold and just come out and say what you are? Don't be ashamed...what do you care what a bunch of hard-working, God-fearing types think anyway?

Meantime, don't be so quick to cover yourself in the mantel of smudged righteousness...don't change the script on us, baby. It was you, sensitive leftoidal, who came on bearing glad hypothetcals of a sectioned or regionalized nationalism and I just played out the scenarios, no concrete proposals...

...we are the Coalition of the Unimpressed...

Artie, I'm a God fearing hard working type (and a combat infantry vet to boot) I have no problem at all labeling you an arrogant, sniveling little faggot.

The function of politics is to keep opposing sides from physical fights, from war, trauma and death. It is only needed when both sides are actually willing to fight absent successful political efforts.

The American left will use violence, the American right won't. Both sides know it.

American politics is therefore useless and will be treated with the contempt appropriate to a useless thing.

The only things the right will do at this point is write passionate comments on blogs. Blah, blah, blah.

Technically that makes us "chickenshit losers". That is also what I call legitimate election observers who allow themselves to be ejected from a polling place, having been too weak and stupid to organize a back-up force.

The left has goon squads, the right has passionate blog commenters.

This is a tantalizing, emotionally satisfying, but ultimately wrong-headed, approach. There is no trampolene at the bottom. When the corruption that is big government destroys a society, the people in it do not blame the destruction on the government and blow off their shackles and rise up for liberty and free markets. No, they call for more government. See Detroit.

The fact that decline has been slow does not mean it is inevitable. "Slow" and "decline" and "inevitable" are not synonyms. There are many ways in which our society has been slowly and steadily improving. In fact the slow nature of the decline provides the opportunity to reverse it. But reversing slow decline with slow improvement is not perceived as sexy and exciting.

I'm a Catholic Christian and won't be arming myself for a civil war. If we can't agree to have a voluntarily civil society, there's nothing I can (will) do to change that.
Yes, we need to Go Galt as fast as we can. Let 'them' own the collapse.

Susan Lee

I feel so much better now that I've given up hope.

While all of the above may be quite cathartic, it is also a total waste of time. Let's accept the inevitable socialist tide that came from Europe and step over the malaise. Join with me in forming a new nation founded on conservative Judeo-Christian values. It is quite exhilarating

While all of the above may be quite cathartic, it is also a total waste of time. Let's accept the inevitable socialist tide that came from Europe and step over the malaise. Join with me in forming a new nation founded on conservative Judeo-Christian values. It is quite exhilarating

When did conservatives turn into such a bunch of frightened, paranoid, conspiracy freak pussies?

No wonder the GOP lost.

Dear Dex

why bother interacting with the timewasters? ex Vet - what a laugh! The alternative economic sites that monitor the flooding of US with Fed "liquidity" via quantative easing have long been calling for the inevitable economic crash to come sooner rather than later. A nation's strength is its wealth and America is BROKE. You need to prepare for pain - unless you are ultra rich or a WH crony. And keep educated with good literature.

"I expect the UN to play a key role."

Grim joke:

If, in the future, you're waiting at a stoplight and a car bomber pulls up next to you and asks for directions to the UN building, what should you do?

Give him the GPS coordinates and wish him good luck.

Daphne, has the Right been shell-shocked, or what? This stuff sounds like the ravings of some poor soul suffering PTSD.

Those are yours alright! . We at least need to get these people stealing images to start blogging! They probably just did a image search and grabbed them. They look good though!

Get over it. Dig in and find satisfaction in it. You are on your own, just like always.
Being defeated is not the worst thing that can happen. Being a loser is.

If we form a new nation, we will never need to deal with liberals again

Frank, the hard right has never been known for its overwhelming STEM membership. A relationship with hard facts, science and math are not tea party/socon strongpoints.

They tend to identify with ideological, nonsensical, emotional pull chords- much like the far left liberals they abhor.

Ray, I hear Louisiana, one of our largest federal parasites, is working on secession. Maybe you should consider a move.

Susan, and any others who "will not be arming themselves" - remember the wisdom of Eowyn. Forever it has and will be true that "those who have not swords may still die upon them."

Guns, bottled water, canned food and small farms in flyover country are still cheap. Get them while you can.

Its paranoia like this from the right that will forever doom you. Tight grip on education? Why not have you and all your friends run for school board. Every local school is run, in near totality, by its local school board. Want to teach creationism in school, get a majority vote on the school board. Done!
Unfair elections? The right lost and that makes it unfair? Republicans run 30 state election boards. You are telling me they just are standing by in some great conspiracy?
I could go on but, really, you guys need to get out more. Remember the polls? The right said they were wrong, even though FOX news had the same results? And then on the election when Rove thought they won Ohio and the FOX NEWS guy said he was 99.95% sure Obama won Ohio? The right needs to get over the hate. GET OVER IT! Advocate your positions but drop they hate. Remember George McGovern, peace-nick? WW2 war hero. We are all Americans. We are not communist, socialists, muslim, anti-christian haters.

Jimbo, you've mistaken the reaction for the action.

Obama, his minions and his handlers are trying to tax, spend, regulate and disarm us into slavery. It is entirely right to despise their actions. This does not make us haters, but realists and patriots. We hate, not them, but their means and goals. Liberals seem unable to appreciate these distinctions, and unable to control their own stereotyping and intolerance.

"Lose the hate" is just another lefty chant that says more about them than about the rest of us. When the left stops hating everything that makes America unique and great, then there won't be hate reflected all around them.