August 29, 2014

Dear Israel: Go big or go home

Scott M: "Israel keeps ending their "wars" with cease-fires, truces, and angry and humiliated enemies with a thirst for weapons.

If Israel would keep destroying the latest attacker until the attacker was dead or surrendered it wouldn't keep having these bi-monthly PR contests. If you leave your enemy in place, surrounded by civilians, and refuse to destroy that enemy and his weapons you are guaranteed to have another war. Stop letting your sympathy for Israel cause you to turn off your mind and stop pretending that if Israel fights the war in a humane and careful manner anyone, anywhere opposed to Israel will help Israel.
"Israel has sub-launched nuke missiles that can reach Tehran. It refuses to use them and so I don't believe they are committed to living. They want an LBJ-style show of force and messages. OK, then don't expect me to give a flip about your future. If my sister was getting punched in the nose routinely by her husband, and 50 years later was whining about how bad her husband was still treating her I would tell her to shut her mouth and leave him or kill him. Don't call me until you have done one or the other. It's your life and if you won't take the action that will work, I don't want to hear your sob story. How many Jews have died while Israel keeps pretending this can be settled without Total War? Do it or shut up. The Muslims do not value 1 or 1 million Muslim lives. Nobody should value their life until they shape up. Deport Islam and nuke Islam. AMERICAN DIGEST: Comment on GetReal Estate Posted by Scott M at August 29, 2014 8:51 PM

Posted by gerardvanderleun at August 29, 2014 9:23 PM
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"It is impossible to speak in such a way that you cannot be misunderstood." -- Karl Popper N.B.: Comments are moderated and may not appear immediately. Comments that exceed the obscenity or stupidity limits will be either edited or expunged.

I agree with the sentiments; I really do.

And it is my understanding that Israel would love nothing more.

But Israel is under pressure from its greatest ally-- the U.S.-- to NOT wipe them out... at least from my understanding.

Not that anything that comes out of Washington has any value. :/

But the point stands.

Posted by: Eirlys at August 29, 2014 10:02 PM

The goal is perpetual conflict. The status quo is good for the powerful.

Posted by: Tim at August 29, 2014 10:06 PM

Unfortunately Israel, like your sister, believes that "dialogue" accomplishes something, or that talking about it is the equivalent of doing something about it, or some damn thing.

Americans are from Mars, Israelis are from Venus.

Posted by: Rob De Witt at August 29, 2014 10:30 PM

The argument that Israel is trying to keep the US happy is baloney, with great respect to you @Eirlys. Many make that point. My anger is at the argument, not you. If your children were being murdered, not in some lucky one-off "event", restraint may have some value. But if the same neighbors keep firebombing your house and you still listen to your insurance agent about not escalating the conflict, you deserve to have your house burned to the ground. There is nothing more important than protecting your citizens. "Never Again" doesn't mean wait until the camps are built and the crematoria are up to temp. It means I will protect my life and if I have to set you and your family on fire, I will do it.

Israel's "foreign aid" receipt from the US is trivial, to us and them. Compare the millstone of trying to keep Obama happy while missiles fly into your towns and it's a losing proposition. Many Israelis have advocated they refuse the money if only for the benefits of a free hand. Their economy is about $300 billion/yr. The US aid is $3 billion/yr. For 1% proponents of this argument claim Israel is allowing the Muslims to hold them hostage. I don't believe it, it makes no sense, and if they are doing what this argument claims they don't deserve a moment of peace. I wouldn't expect to deserve it for my self, if I was in their shoes.

Israel supplies water, electricity, and allows shipments of non-military supplies into Gaza. The electricity, and maybe the water, are given without cost. That's not someone concerned primarily with their survival. Their own spokesman estimated that Hamas was left with 3000 missiles in Gaza AFTER this "war." That is a "battered wife" trying not to exceed the impossible to meet standards of fighting and saving your enemy at the same time.

Israel has used this same fight, but not too hard and until the threat is reduced a measurable fraction, and then wait for the next suicide-bomber, missile attack, etc., etc, for decades. Every one of those since 1967 has claimed to be different than the previous delaying action. This one was really supposed to be different and I was writing in numerous places it would be EXACTLY like the last several military/campaigns. It was and the Israeli govt may fall for not finishing the job. Netanyhue has pissed off most of his Party. He talks big, it sounds exactly right, but he doesn't do what he says. In matters of life and death, that is worse than unacceptable.

Do not allow anyone to waste your time telling you of the very real and inhumane actions of the Muslims against Israel and forget to ask them why Israel will allow those organizations and people to rearm and prepare for the next attack. What is the evidence that Israel thought this time they needed to bend to the whim of Barry the Usurper? US and Israel both know Obama is hostile to Israel.

We cannot allow people to keep painting by numbers, doing and thinking what they always do and think, in these recurring situations. They recur because what we are doing and thinking are obviously wrong. Lives are at stake and Jews will die in Israel because Gaza hasn't been bombed, bulldozed, and annexed. Those lives are more important than anything else in the world, if only the Israelis acted like it. Is Iran impressed that Israel leaves Gaza alive, or tempted because of the policy?

Thank you for responding.

Posted by: Scott M at August 30, 2014 1:34 AM

The older I get, the more I am convinced by the evidence and the less by the arguments.

My uncle, Letsgo Lozko, he raised bantam chickens. He said "He who hesitates ends up with an empty stewpot."

Metaphysical and cryptic were not words in his vocabulary.

Posted by: chasmatic at August 30, 2014 8:05 AM

Israel is a country, much like the U.S., which has a certain percentage of their population that believe they can make peace with the Palestinians and that all-out, total war solves nothing. In other words they are divided on how to defend themselves. This division is magnified by 24/7 news, Muslim organizations, and the constant meddling of the UN.

If Israel did what they are capable of doing and leveled Gaza, leaving but few Palestinians living, there would be immediate calls (some from within Israel itself) for a UN force to invade and destroy Israel. The Palestinians are only a proxy for the greater Muslim world and anti-semites everywhere. Destroying the Palestinians is to remove but a small piece of their enemy.

Israel is damned if it does and damned if it doesn't. So, it continues to defend itself as best it can without destroying the bully that keeps attacking. They walk a fine line. It is maddening that there is no easy "final" solution to this enmity that goes back 1600 years.

The final solution will only come when Islam either reforms or is destroyed. Israel is not capable of destroying Islam so it struggles on, waiting and hoping for either reform or a Western Alliance that will destroy Islam.

Posted by: Jimmy J. at August 30, 2014 9:02 AM

I'm reading a book on the Six-day war right now. There's a lot of interesting information and documents that weren't available until recently. One of the things that struck me was that, in 1966, when Egypt's president Nasser was contemplating war with Israel, the Egyptian planners EXPECTED a cease fire agreement, somewhere around day four.

In other words, a cease-fire agreement was part of the war plan. And if the Egyptians are planning around such events, would not the Israelis do so also?

Posted by: Gordon at August 30, 2014 9:07 AM

If you live in a dangerous neighborhood you cannot afford to seek approval from your mortal enemies. You cannot afford to pursue the admiration of people that will not support you, no matter what you do. You cannot afford to ignore people saying they will exterminate you. Massive percentages of Gazans want Israel destroyed. Israel does as much as possible to keep those people electrically-powered, watered, fed even as those people support Hamas, and whatever replaces Hamas. Stop feeling sorry for the anorexic, when she has a closet full of groceries. Stop just repeating the same excuses for doing what clearly hasn't worked for 50 years. Poor people have "reasons" why they must spend money on beer, cigs, and lottery. Alcoholics have "reasons" why they need a drink, just some beer, now. Those "reasons" are only excuses for not facing the problem.

It is clear Israel can accept her people dying but she *chooses* not to accept the usual suspects will always condemn her and so we are where we are. When Israel is nuked remember she knew it was coming and she waited for it to happen.

Posted by: Scott M at August 30, 2014 3:15 PM

Jimmy me lad; "for a UN force to invade and destroy Israel"

That force (would it not?) have to be American? When the UN sends it's aircraft carrier into action anywhere in the world, the flag that waves off the forepeak is the Stars and Stripes, is it not? The UN's "military capability" isn't that of NATO, and Nato (divorced from the US) isn't enough to scare a single Russian infantryman back into Russia. Is it? So until the Chinese get a serious interest in power projection to the other side of the world, if a American administration ever gives Israel the wink its a done deal.

Israel does wait on and follows the lead of the US simply because only the US can keep the Israeli Defense Forces supplied with missiles and advanced ordinance when they are burning through their stockpiles at full throttle. Praise Jehovah and pass the ammunition

Posted by: John the River at August 30, 2014 3:21 PM

John the River, in the case of Israel destroying Gaza, you know and I know there would be calls for an invasion - I didn't say it would happen. What could happen though would be major economic sanctions ala South Africa. Such sanctions could bite and weaken Israel immensely. There would be plenty of U.S. companies that would join the sanctions even if the government was not officially on board.

The final solution is in the future - probably far in the future. Unless nukes start to fly. Then all bets are off.

Posted by: Jimmy J. at August 30, 2014 8:27 PM

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