I can’t imagine why any sane person would think it would be a wonderful idea to cede California geographically to a foreign power. Is there some lunatic reason you think it would be cool to let Communist China or Iran set up across an imaginary line dividing California from the surrounding states?
"We won't and they won't. The United States government can't afford to allow foreign powers to set up in one of our former states, especially not one that has so much infrastructure that can be used as a platform against the U.S..
"It has nothing to do with States Rights or the rights/wrongs legality/illegality of secession: it has to do with the very simple strategic principle of "We can allow no hostile or competitive nation level peers within our hemisphere."
"It's the same reason that while Texas secession is theoretically attractive, it won't and can't happen because the United States can't and won't allow it – it would spark a nearly immediate invasion of Texas by the Fed and a new War of Independence or Civil War. Likewise for California.
"CalExit would be temporary only. It would end as soon as D.C. got serious about saying, "Okay, you've had your fun, now it's over."
"However, while it was temporarily active, a number of things would happen that would be beneficial to the U.S. and America as a whole in the long run:
"California secedes, and almost immediately the new nation of California breaks up into at least four states/areas including the Big Valley, the Interior, Northern California, and Coastal California (probably comprised of SoCal Coastal, SF, and Silicone Valley and *maybe* the Imperial Valley.) The Interior (Mojave etc) and probably the Big Valley elect to stay with the U.S. as part of the Union.
"Northern California could go two ways, stay with the Union and petition to become it's own state, or form it's own State of Jefferson in combination with Southern Oregon (maybe). Most likely, NC stays with the U.S.
"Coastal California suddenly finds several things have happened: SoCal, SF, and Silicon Valley find themselves on their own sans a majority of their actual productive areas and citizens and tax base. Coastal California also finds themselves in possession of several increasingly hostile U.S. military bases that the U.S. cannot afford to allow them to keep, nor afford to lose.
"Coastal California finds itself being charged with violation of the sedition acts and high treason (making war upon the U.S.), with an active enemy within their borders that is specialized in having a monopoly on the organized and disciplined application of force, and a lot of military hardware – and no real military of its own.
"Coastal California finds itself invaded by the U.S.. At some point shortly after, its secession comes to an end.
"At some point immediately after that, the people in charge of, behind the rebellion, and supporting it find themselves charged with treason and sedition, convicted, and then given due process of whatever sort.
"After that, it's a bit up in the air what happens to SoCal… they could find themselves reduced to an occupied U.S. territoial holding, or simply brought back to heel and into the Union as was the South after the Civil War.
Bad for California.
"Not so bad for the U.S. in the long run, although heavily disruptive in the short run.
"Depending how it occurs and what happens, the U.S. gains anywhere from 1 to 3 or 4 new Red States and a Territory where the back of the predominately Blue Bloc has been broken. Alternately, it gets back a defeated state that goes Red, as the back of the California Blue Bloc has been broken.
"An awful lot of California Leftist politicians, industrialists, and Hollywood idiots find themselves charged with sedition and treason, and hanged or imprisoned. (I prefer hanged, but Federal prison works too.)
"The Left loses an awful lot of Electoral Votes, plus an example gets made that is unmistakable to the rest of the U.S. Left.
"No, we aren’t going to let California go just because some conservatives are all butthurt about what asshats lefty Californians (who may not even be a majority of the population) have done or said in the past.
"No, we're not going to let California go, but the process of not letting them go could be extremely beneficial for the U.S. in the long run.
"(And vastly entertaining for people like me, too. I have popcorn.)
"We can also lose a lot of asshats in the process."
Ironbear Commenting on Realistically Speaking, This Is a Fool’s Errand @ Daily Pundit
Posted by gerardvanderleun at January 30, 2017 7:49 AM
On the other hand we could permit California to leave the Union and:
Maintain a strong military presence, flood the newly departed State with US troops and halt all commercial and recreational activities along the entirety of its coast;
Halt all US federal money infusions for previously sponsored programs including infrastructure, welfare, communications, national power grid, parks and recreation, etc.;
Halt all movement into and out of the newly departed State by all persons, regardless of need....you get the picture.
Then we sit back and watch the good people of California turn in fury upon their marxist neighbors and tear them to pieces.
I don't drink alcohol, but I'll settle in and watch all Hell break loose, with a cold glass of tea and a burger in front of my TV set.
Posted by: Jack at January 30, 2017 8:24 AMJack, that requires possessing a 'territory' which is expensive and will have numerous individuals committing a harassing guerrilla war for some time.
The idea of dividing it up is pleasing and reduces the odds of further conflict. No matter what, it is going to be bloody.
Posted by: Vermont Woodchuck at January 30, 2017 10:45 AMIt's been said that suicide is permanent solution to a temporary problem.
Conservatives who thoughtlessly suggest that secession is a tolerable idea are like suicidal individuals.
Secessionists are enemies of the USA and should be so treated.
Posted by: JamesG at January 30, 2017 11:02 AMI "left the building" a long time ago, don't expect to be back anytime soon.
Posted by: ghostsniper at January 30, 2017 12:36 PMI doubt that the Glorious Imperial Legions could even find California, let alone subdue it. I'm holding onto my CALEXIT baseball cap for now.
Posted by: Quent at January 30, 2017 2:16 PMThrow California off the bus. Declare that, having failed in the most basic tasks of a state government (running up a huge debt; fomenting sedition within its borders; running a non-representative, one-party state; pick something), it hereby devolving from state to territory status until such time as it demonstrates it can carry out basic adult responsibilities. Until then, the state government is dissolved and its Congressional representatives are voided. The federal government then appoints a territorial governor with full power to organize whatever management apparatus he deems necessary to run California's affairs. After several years, if California can prove it now has its house in order, it can petition Washington for re-admission to the Union.
Posted by: Lurker at January 30, 2017 3:24 PMLurker makes a good point: failed state status. It would get ugly, but there's ugly already there. I have to admit, Cali is a freaking paradise of sunshine, oversize vegetables, beautiful people to see occasionally, big interstates, natural phenomenon like the ocean and granite monoliths in the Sierras, pristine deserts, and giant forests. But, if you take a wrong turn down the wrong road, and your engine overheats, you could be on the set of Road Warrior meets the Twilight Zone meets Freddy Kruger meets Night of the Zombies. You get it. Hell, with chrome around it.
Decertify. I'd go for that. Meanwhile, tax the spit out of them while we rebuild. Offer housing breaks for those who choose to exodus the former state.
This might be an even better movie idea than Red Dawn and Escape From.
If this all sounds like big government to you, think of it more as tacking the wind. I'm still a small government guy, with a case of the ass.
Just what is it with you dipshits and Iran?
Why the hell would they have any interest in the California train wreck?
Why would China for that matter?
What a bunch of paranoid fearmongers.
Posted by: Bill Jones at January 30, 2017 5:23 PMHe said, "case of the ass", the sign of a soldier. heh
Next thing ya know he's gonna say "shot o' leg".
Posted by: ghostsniper at January 30, 2017 6:35 PMAnybody who looks at what it will cost to bring Californias rotting infrastructure up to reasonable standards will run the other way. Spending your tax dollars on vote buying is good for your party but not for the state.
Posted by: J Cass at January 30, 2017 8:46 PMVermont, that's my point. Permit those idiots to leave the Union and then take their federal benefits and occupy it.
In re guerilla tactics.....we're talking California here, not Texas. Those left wing nut cases would simply say "whatever" and return to their bongs and gay sex.
Posted by: Jack at January 31, 2017 7:24 AMAnd nary a mention of the almost $1 trillion dollar of unfunded CALPERS, CALSTIRS pension funds. Let that little shoe drop and see Calexit come to a screaming halt. California cannot survive standing alone. Sorry
Posted by: DumbPlumber at January 31, 2017 7:45 AMI live in San Diego. We have recently ( last 5-8 years ) been overrun with liberal snowflakes from other states and from other countries.
We used to be a conservative military town. I would never vote for secession from our Union. The dang radicals run this state and control ALL parts of the government here. California is doomed unless we do something to get them out....
we are open to suggestions as voting will never work here, we are outnumbered.
I tend to think that it can happen because of the grips of other regions in the Country. If California attempted it, i believe Northern California would want to split, then the American redoubt would throw in as well, I doubt DC cant fight a war on multiple fronts
Posted by: Simmerjet at January 31, 2017 2:06 PM1. Let them go. Keep the military bases as a condition, yet offer them no security benefit from them.
2. Another condition is they may not use USD as currency, except to pay their portion of US federal debt, apportioned by population (don't forget to count the illegals). They can buy oil in their new currency, "moonbeams".
3. Mexican illegals flood in, bankrupting the state.
4. Silicon valley is targeted for looting by the new Hispanic majority government.
5. The staye, desperate for cash, turns to a new sugar daddy, China.
6. China sends money, and of course "security forces".
7. US invades, Kali is destroyed, the rest of the US goes carpetbagger on their dumb asses.
8. Rejoice!
We never want to "cut CA loose" because the Reds would have a foothold to launch subversion into other states. We need to hold our coasts at all costs. Also, CalExit requires 3/4 of states to approve, which will never happen. The fantasy of an armed insurrection here is also just that, a fantasy. People here have food and cable TV and have no reason to want to end up shot to hell and dying. WRS talks big, but I never see any action. Damn entertaining to read, though.
Posted by: John Costello at January 31, 2017 3:21 PM"An awful lot of California Leftist politicians, industrialists, and Hollywood idiots find themselves charged with sedition and treason, and hanged or imprisoned."
The best option to refuse to allow them to surrender and simply shoot them, thereby avoiding the lawfare games that taking them alive would result in.
Posted by: EndOfPatience at January 31, 2017 3:35 PMWhen it all goes down, the Kalifornia elites will flee to the other liberal enclaves of the country.
Rinse and repeat...
Posted by: Hognutz at January 31, 2017 4:50 PMA state that imports 70% of its nat gas and 50% of their oil and 60% of their electricity is in a very weak position to become independent. There is not enough produce in the Central Valley or movies in Hollywood to offset that balance of payment issue. Not to mention taking on their portion of the 20T national debt. Reality will bite hard and fast.
Posted by: Menidas at January 31, 2017 5:43 PMAfter the fact, it might be prudent to force California to cede its urban areas to the federal government - as federal enclaves, like DC.
This, combined with draconian development restrictions outside of the federal enclaves, would restrict the ability of the left-leaning urbanites to poison State elections.
The feds could restrict welfare/etc. payouts to people residing in these enclaves, as well - keeping problems contained there.
Posted by: AC at January 31, 2017 5:57 PM"We never want to "cut CA loose" because the Reds would have a foothold to launch subversion into other states."
******
Uh....what? Sir, the "Reds" not only have a foothold, they OWN one of the biggest propaganda organs on the planet (in Hollywood), where they have been launching subversive agitprop into other states for several decades now.
Seen a movie lately?....I rest my case.
Posted by: Aileron at January 31, 2017 9:02 PMSecession is one of the rights reserved to the States by the 9th and 10th amendments. If California wants to secede, let them, and as noted above, then accept the breakup of the state into smaller states, which then can petition for re-admission.
We can enforce their payback of their portion of the debt and insist on their respecting our military basing very simply. As noted above, California imports much of their power, but there is an even more basic hold we have on them- We control the Colorado River water supply to southern California.
California's agriculture depends on water, much of it from the Colorado River. No water, no food.
Leave California alone! It serves as a great object lesson to the rest of America and serves as a place for the hardest core nutters to move to and suffer under their own laws. You think all the Syrian immigrants are going to want to move to Idaho?
Posted by: Rick at February 1, 2017 6:16 AMI wouldn't fight to retain California. I might fight to eject it.
Posted by: Obama's boyfriend at February 1, 2017 11:50 PM
HOME