WHEN in the course of human Events, it becomes necessary….
[Bumped] “Hey, you know something people? I’m not black, but there’s a whole lots a times I wish I could say I’m not white” — Frank Zappa
byVanderleunonMay 29, 2020
“I CAN’T BREATHE” Black Man Killed by Minneapolis PD
Warning:The video presented below depicts the street killing of a man by a Minneapolis policeman in gruesome detail. I’m not easily shocked but it took me several tries before I could bear to watch it. It’s followed by a reaction by another American. I’ll take a step to the side here and let him tell you about it from his own point of view.
I don’t know what’s going on with Minneapolis and its cops these days but I’m with Zappa on this one. Cops need to do some hard time this time.
UPDATE: All four cops involved were summarily fired while the expected protests and riots jumped off in Minneapolis to be seasoned with tear gas and rubber bullets. The nation has more than enough to do this summer without dealing with this sort of racial animosity. At a time when all hands need to work together this the very last thing we need. And yet… and yet… here we are again
And all the other crap they hand me
In the papers and TV
‘N all that mass stupidity
That seems to grow more every day
Each time you hear some nitwit say
He wants to go and do you in
Because the color of your skin
Just don’t appeal to him
(No matter if it’s black or white)
Because he’s out for blood tonight…
Every reader, here, should realize that what has happened to this black man, at the hands of the cops, you know those guys who are supposed “to protect” and “to serve” we the people, that many cops will just as willingly do this to a white man as America continues to unravel due to all politicians’ desires to maintain the course toward total control of the American people.
Americans see this type of thing go down time and time again, with no repercussions against the perpetrators. If you don’t think the cops will do this to you because you’re a white man, well, get out there and break a few lockdown rules, and when the cops show up to cite your ass, or arrest, and you begin loudly claiming your alleged constitutional freedoms, see how fast you end up on the ground with a knee on your neck, or the boot of the state stomping on your face.
Kevin in PAMay 27, 2020, 11:25 AM
While race plays a role in some of this, I do not accept the assertion offered on Black Authentic Truth @ the YouTube site. Rather, I see this as another example of excessive use of force that has become an epidemic in America. Plenty of non-black folks have been victims of it as well.
Yesterday I commented about Colonel Cooper’s stance re; armed men with masks. His words were in response to the Waco debacle. It is my firm belief, and I said it at the time, that the lack of accountability for wrongful actions by federal police set a precedent and that Americans would come to rue the day we allowed them so much power and so littler oversight. It seems that day has arrive and we are now seeing and feeling it everywhere.
The police in America are under-trained, over-gunned thanks to bargain basement sales of military equipment into the hands of civilian “peace officers” across the land. Many of them possess an attitude of Us versus Them. Many of them are like a 4 year old boy with a hammer. Everything looks like a nail to the 4 y.o. To the poorly trained and overzealous cops with a gun or pepper spray every problem is met with force and more force. And finally, the matter of prosecutorial immunity is crap and should be done away with entirely.
Shiny badges and state issued costumes should not offer special privileges. If a LEO kills he/she should be held accountable. I am not saying cops should never use force, but when they do, there had damn well better be a very good reason for doing so and not a pile of lies coming from behind a blue wall of silence.
JewelMay 27, 2020, 11:27 AM
Look, all they want is just a pinch of incense in the thurible. They just want you to take a bite of forbidden meat. Not even a bite really. Just…a…taste is all. Really, no big deal.
The Health Stasis need to become frightened. Because someone is going to trace them…and then contact them…and it won’t go well for them. https://youtu.be/YIVPyKLyRjI
Be sure to applaud them every evening at 8 pm.
Kevin in PAMay 27, 2020, 11:31 AM
John Venlet,
Absolutely in full agreement.
When the boot of the state is stomping on your neck, it matters not what the political flavor of that particular jurisdiction may be. It is THE STATE -v- THE PEOPLE. Please see the book written by Aaron Zelman (RIP) and Claire Wolfe by the same name. Also read James Bovard – LOST RIGHTS.
Oh, holy shit.
Just when you thought things couldn’t get worse.
I clicked the video, but couldn’t watch. Inasmuch as I acknowledge that cops have to be hard ass at times, there’s just no excuse for this. None. Those cops bought the ticket, and we’re all going to be on the hook for the ride. There will be hell to pay.
You know, I’m trying to keep faith and not fall into the darkness of raw pessimism, but I’m getting a sick feeling in my gut that the world as we knew it is gone. We’re not going home again.
JWM
timMay 27, 2020, 11:44 AM
My rage is triggered elsewhere.
But there was no video of the crime nor news coverage to tell the absolute horrific story of Channon Gail Christian and Hugh Christopher Newsom, Jr.
What saddens me is that white people don’t assemble like this and demand firings when cops arrest white people for stupid things like playing on a playground. White people need to break this irrational belief that cops have their best interest at heart and start seeing them as a street gang that is loyal to the people who win elections.
butchMay 27, 2020, 12:13 PM
These assholes are going to learn a hard lesson about losing the support of law abiding citizens. Open season.
ghostsniperMay 27, 2020, 12:18 PM
This isn’t a race issue.
It’s another unaccountable gov’t criminal issue.
This stuff goes on across the entire race spectrum but the communist media only highlights the negro versions.
Both, the criminal gov’t and the communist media need to be entirely wiped out.
Then the rest of us could get on peaceably running our lives as we see fit.
Rob De WittMay 27, 2020, 12:26 PM
As has been pointed out, a lot of cops are assholes. That they share my color inspires in me no guilt whatsoever, and it shouldn’t you, either. I search in vain for public outpouring of black responsibility when mobs burn their cities, or attack vulnerable whites.
There are assholes. Some of them are men. Some of them are white men. Collective guilt-assignment is a Marxist tactic; surely you know that.
twolaneflashMay 27, 2020, 12:57 PM
GW Carver was right when he wrote that there were people who were never going to miss an opportunity to incite racial discord, for therein lay their power, their profits, their purpose. Evil people they are. Their pattern of operation has now become boilerplate. First, find the event involving white on black violence, even if you have to invent new racial flavors like “white Mexican”. Next, identify the deep pockets, and set them up for a civil rights-based lawsuit. Whip up the media to promote the narrative of white man bad, black man can’t be blamed. Groundwork is now laid for DOJ Civil Rights hit squad to bring the power of the Deep State against bad white man, and whatever deep pockets to which he’s connected. The Usual Suspects bank millions, in spite of their scheme being nothing more than extortion by race card. Rinse, and repeat…in Miami, NYC, Baltimore, Ferguson, and on and on.
captfleeMay 27, 2020, 1:02 PM
FFS, of course you are “here again”, it’s an election year. You didn’t really think that you weren’t going to be serially bombarded with as many “poor little Trayvons”, “joggers”, and “gentle giants” as they can gin up, of increasingly disparate dubiosity, until the last polls close in November, did you?
Hell, the local media, and we’re talking about a #150 market or so, dreaming of the bright lights of Podunk, made a half assed attempt at cranking up a white and cop lynch mob narrative, but that never caught on, largely owing to a substantial percentage of the participants having near relations among “tha community”. C’mon, racial incendiarists gotta incendiarise, but you gotta work with whatcha got, unless you can slip in a ringer, e.g. Rachel Jeantel, Saint Skittles’ purported beloveded.
Lunatic that I am, based on the past ten years of performances by race baiting ambulance chaser Ben Crump, I am inclined to await the results of the autopsy and any further available evidence before passing judgment on anyone involved, bothered as I am by that video. Hell, the regional hostage roasting team feebie dickwad who nearly dislocated my shoulder did that knee on neck thing to me, albeit for considerably shorter duration, and I am, last time I checked, pretty damned white, and on that day was wearing uniform khakis with O-6 collar devices, so not exactly the sort of skreet rabble LEOs generally have to rassle, and I can assure you I was in no way resisting. (It must be said here that by their nature, HRTs tend to deal with the more ambitious amongst the criminal element, so some slack may be accorded them in their methods, but not, say, shooting through the head women carrying infants).
Now, I yield to few indeed in my admiration of Mr. Zappa’s oeuvre, was and will be a fan prolly for life, but there are times when I wonder whether ol’ Dave McGowan wasn’t onto something with “Weird Scenes Inside the Canyon”. Wonder also how the twenties will stack up against the sixties in the insanity (whether organic or manufactured) sweepstakes, although I have to say that the first five months of this decade look to be LIT! Funny, the only times I have entertained any thought of abandoning my apparently toxic whiteness were upon considering the utterly meritless pelf to be gained by checking a different ethnicity box.
Life in the Twin Cities must be something to behold. Attempts to reach Justine Damond for comment have gone unanswered, so I have tasked the love of life with effecting communication from that realm, as yet to no great success, though some spookily weird activity of late from one of the dogs has me a little curious. I had an acquaintance some decades back, a near Adonis of a fellow, one of those for whom the spoils of life are oft laid unbidden at their feet, whom I knew when living in LA (lower Alabama) as a Coastie, who did postgraduate work at Minnesota, and about as bigoted a white man as I have ever encountered as regards our darker brethren, who loved, loved, loved it up there. Said he had never lived amidst so many kindred spirits, and that included beau coups time in coonass country, in Mobile, and in the foreign outposts of the GOMEX awl bidness diaspora, Aberdeen, Isfahan, und so weiter, so that is no mean feat.
Dr. JayMay 27, 2020, 1:26 PM
So, what’s the consensus on “Heads On Pikes” as cruel and/or unusual punishment?
VanderleunMay 27, 2020, 1:47 PM
Theirs? No problem.
Ours? Problem.
JackMay 27, 2020, 2:28 PM
Years ago when I was a young sprout I worked for 6 months with a police department. My short stint saw enough violence to convince me, right quick, that I wanted nothing….nothing at all….to do with that job and now that the world has gone from a little rough and troublesome to full out bat shit psycho, especially when a white cop has to deal with a black law breaker, I’m so very glad I didn’t nut up and stay on that job.
This guy’s attitude was a solid “fuck you” when the police were initiating their contact with him and he elected to resist arrest. I would not be at all surprised if he was high on something but even were he not, all he had to do was comply with the police. Instead, he chose otherwise and he was dealt with properly by a takedown.
It took the force of more than one or two policemen to subdue that guy and the boys in blue should have cuffed him and permitted him to settle down. That knee on the neck thing works well to initiate restraint but with the full weight of a policeman behind it for multiple minutes there will very likely be a death or permanent injury and public opinion will crucify the cops who failed to recognize it and not surprisingly will almost certainly inspire cops all over the country to say “screw it” and not extend themselves to halt the crime in black hoods.
There was an incident in Mississippi several days ago when a black policemen grabbed a young black thug by his neck and held him against a car, insisting that he settle down. The policeman could have creamed that kid but he just held the pressure on him to keep him compliant and he didn’t hurt or harm the little gangsta but he is on suspension, pending an investigation of “police brutality”. He will be toast too, regardless of his explanation and reasoning because if you are black, the thug is always right.
I have been watching this civil rights thing for more than 60 years and other than the fact that most of the blacks I know today are recipients of some kind of State and/or Federal aid, I’m not the least bit optimistic that any appreciable number of these special people will ever ascend any farther than they have risen today. Those who have ascended will and are going as far as time, education and talent will take them but the majority refuse to assimilate, play by the rules, stay out of crime, get off of drugs, stay out of gangs, jointly parent their illegitimate children, or work to find a way to disconnect from their “entitlements” and they always blame their failure and misery on white people.
It is very evident in their behavior, and you can just about set your watch to it, that their hatred of white people is the foundation for their solidarity. White people don’t sit around and plan or scheme against blacks but you cannot present that fact to them and have the majority agree. Contemporaneously, they refuse to see they are the common denominator to every single bad thing that happens to them.
AnonymousMay 27, 2020, 3:25 PM
Hey Jack,
” knee on the neck thing works well to initiate restraint but with the full weight of a policeman behind it for multiple minutes there will very likely be a death or permanent injury and public opinion will crucify the cops who failed to recognize it …”
A man pleading that he “can’t breathe”, for multiple minutes, after being handcuffed and with a cop’s knee on his neck….until he went unconscious and the cop still remained on top of him.
……..ummm exactly what part of that scenario caused Officer McMurder to “fail to recognize” that his actions would “very likely cause death or permanent injury”?
Let me tell you, Jack, there is a growing disdain for these parasites in blue within communities of every race and ethnicity across the country. There is also a growing disdain for their apologists. You are certainly free to continue to lick your overlord’s boots. But if the attitude you expressed in your comment is held widely by LEO’s, and I suspect it is, then, I suggest they should get out of that line of work, because they are a danger to the citizenry. At the rate things are going they are creating a very dangerous climate for any badge and any uniform. Every LEO in this country better think about it. They are not untouchable.
You are right about one thing in this case. Public opinion will virtually crucify these thugs, as well it should. From what I saw, they deserve to be indicted for murder and after conviction they should do hard time….and take their bloated pensions away too!
A good conversation. Several comments that I wish that I could click a “like”. (Kevin, John)
JackMay 27, 2020, 4:32 PM
Anonymous, I understand what you’re saying and I’m not in agreement with the cop staying on top of him as long as he did. He had that guy under control and he should have enlisted the assistance of the other officers to sit him up. I don’t approve of their refusal to let the guy get up…NOT AT ALL and I’m certainly not gonna speculate on the mindset of the officer who had that guy pinned down but I am aware of the stress that police and other LEO’s go through when they have to deal with violence. If you watch that officer, his posture was almost as if he couldn’t understand what was being asked of him.
I don’t lick anyone’s boots but let me remind you….or simply explain it to you because I seriously doubt that you have ever encountered a violent person that you had to restrain….that these cops have to do this every day of their lives and they are well aware of the danger they face and they’re even more aware of that problematic reaction of people who won’t get involved but who arm chair quarterback their every move. Police officers never know what they’re going to run into and all this perp had to do was comply with their requests and it wouldn’t have ended this way.
That said, how would you have handled it?
Permit me to suggest something to YOU. If you ever run into a situation where you are threatened, or attacked then do the right thing based upon your attitude about cops: Take it like a little man and don’t get LEO’s involved.
That way you won’t end up cussing LEO’s if they don’t handle it just as you might think they should.
Auntie AnalogueMay 27, 2020, 5:01 PM
Cruelty: I know it when I see it, and I saw it in that video along with that policeman’s fellow officers’ failure to stop his cruelty.
Snakepit KansasMay 27, 2020, 5:08 PM
I”m going to state what is obvious to me but may make many cringe: White cops kill a black man and the result is outrage. Blacks slaughter each other en masse for years in Chicago and absolutely NOBODY cares.
Snake is right, of course, and not limited to Chicago by any means.
Of course we wouldn’t be discussing this at all if somebody had used some common sense, so allow me to state something else that should be obvious. Being a cop is hard. It’s harder when you’re dumb. Fat, dumb and being a cop is no way to go thru life, son, and those dumbasses who killed that guy need to be put in jail for the longest stretch possible.
ghostsniperMay 27, 2020, 6:31 PM
those dumbasses who killed that guy need to be put in jail for the longest stretch possible.
========
No.
Restitution must be paid by the guilty to the victim(s).
The purpose of justice is to make the victims whole.
Caging the perps does not do that, it just makes everything worse.
TerryMay 27, 2020, 7:15 PM
Cops disgust me. They have been on my stink list for decades after watching them beat up hippies in Frisco Cali. Always numerous cops beating one hippie. Cops are cowards. Dirt bags. Action freaks on steroids.
Maybe not all cops fit my description. But 90% is not far off. Yea, heads on pikes fits my vision of them nicely. French Revolution style. The bastards are immune to any serious punishment just like politicians.
Gordon ScottMay 27, 2020, 8:57 PM
I’ve lived in Minneapolis for over 20 years. Minneapolis PD has long had a reputation for violence. But this isn’t some cop overreaction.
The victim was not resisting. What’s more, even though you cannot see it, two other officers were on top of him. What I can’t figure out is why. He should have been in the squad car. There seems to be no good reason for him to be on the ground.
Thursday night featured protesters taunting police. Because several council members objected to the police defending their station and vehicles on Wednesday, Thursday police stood by while Looters For Justice cleaned out the Target across the street. Arsonists For Floyd torched a car parts store, and a liquor store was looted again.
I have seen Minneapolis cops turn a nonviolent situation into a violent one. This seems to be standard cop training now. If the suspect does comply perfectly AND gracefully, slam them on the ground.
Casey KlahnMay 27, 2020, 9:41 PM
Before I comment about the video, the proof that the cops over-applied force is that the poor guy is dead. That is undeniable; no argument there, and the correct thing to do would be to keep them on the roster and investigate the event thoroughly. External investigation, and also lock the cops up for their own safety.
I have no police experience, but I did have another guardsman who was a cop take a prisoner in war games, and I assisted him. I was so impressed with how he detained the soldier with just a simple hand touch to the wrist behind the guy’s back; it was like watching a magical trick and I have never forgotten the complete and total mastery my friend applied without even rumpling his sleeve. Good, experienced cops are awesome to see and I wouldn’t even think of fucking with one.
Pigs exist, though. That is evident because there are fuktards in every group.
The vic is adopting a non-compliance dead-man attitude, and there is some data indicating that he was high. It certainly is resisting arrest. Never trust a video caption (HFS). Violence is like an explosion; it radiates outward and does not stop until spent or resisted terminally. Maybe the cops the night before had an arrest go bad and police got hurt. Maybe 2 nights before they had a cop hospitalized in the same type of event. I understand this: do not fuck around in an arrest. Fucking around in an arrest is cause for lights out. Not death, but certainly you will be brought to compliance.
It was manslaughter. There is no racial component that is evident, except for some meta-narratives caused by our long cultural racial focus. Maybe there was racism, but I didn’t see that. I didn’t see everything but I did see an awful video, that’s for sure. There may be 50 reasons why the cops had to apply violence, but there used to be a thing called the least application of force necessary. They failed there.
But don’t go on about the vic did nothing. I can see he resisted arrest. HFS! For suspicion of forgery? Something went down there and videos show nothing.
HFS we need better cops.
HMay 28, 2020, 4:05 AM
Ghostie, my man. You’re pretty smart, but the guy is dead. ‘Splain it to me how he gets restituted up now? Write him a check? For how much? Ten million bucks is a nice number. Might as well be ten gazillion. He can’t cash it. No. Probably the worst fears those cops have would be to get thrown into gen-pop. Lock ’em up for life, however short that might be in gen-pop. Fini.
ghostsniperMay 28, 2020, 4:39 AM
H, first off the term “restitution” has 2 sides to it’s meaning. In itself it is punishment to the perpetrator, and it serves to compensate the victim for their loss. Understand, the word “victim” is not isolated to the person that was directly harmed. For instance, if you have life insurance and die your benefactor(s) are compensated for their loss.
Once again, long ago, justice in the USA served a purpose that was useful to the people that it served, but now, as with most things gov’t, it serves benefit to a few select persons at great cost to all others. In short, who benefits by putting the perpetrator(s) in prison? And, how are the victims compensated for their loss with the current justice system?
Because these changes over time are so glacially slow and most people can’t be bothered to learn the history, it’s easy for most people to be ignorant to the success of the original processes and the damage created by the current process.
wayneMay 28, 2020, 4:40 AM
The lesson I would like everyone to learn is – if you fight the police, you could very well die. The fighting should be done in court, not on the street. We will continue to have ‘bad’ cops because, as shown from the comments I’ve read, not too many people would want that job. Since not many would want the job, the standards must be lowered. The irony is, not too many years ago, the policeman was respected – and that was in the days of BANG ….”Stop or I’ll shoot!”
GlenfilthieMay 28, 2020, 6:22 AM
Hmmmmmmmm.
Think about this, folks. Put your emotions aside, and think dispassionately. Four cops. Each one of them, probably without a mark on their records – decide to kill a man in cold blood for no reason. All at the same time. On camera. In front of witnesses.
Call me paranoid, but I get the impression that somebody is trying to manipulate me. But the mass media and the race whores would NEVER try to mislead anyone, right?
NAH.
VeezeMay 28, 2020, 7:29 AM
“…Each one of them, probably without a mark on their records….”
This theory has been debunked. The kneeling cop has a significant list of complaints against him.
Fuel FilterMay 28, 2020, 7:34 AM
That PD has been run by “Out and Proud” Leftists for a looooong time now, so if there’s any blame to go around blame it on Leftist politics.
“Inside every Leftist is a Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out.“
(Or words to that effect. That’s the headline banner on Frontpagemag.com. As true as it’s ever been…)
lpdbwMay 28, 2020, 7:40 AM
These are the same cops who will come for your guns under the cover of Red Flag laws.
These are the same cops who will enforce illegal and unconstitutional decrees by governors and mayors and judges.
I used to believe that cops, on average, would refuse to be gun-grabbers because of high moral standards. Now I think that their paychecks, pensions and getting home safe at night are the only values they have.
As much as this sickens me……it sickens me more that some people, who identify as conservatives, will attempt to justify what the cops did just like they are doing with the death of Ahmaud Arbery in Georgia. We cannot do that an have any credibility. Defending bad cops and racists is NOT the job of the conservative movement.
As much as this sickens me……it sickens me more that some people, who identify as conservatives, will attempt to justify what the cops did just like they are doing with the death of Ahmaud Arbery in Georgia. We cannot do that and have any credibility. Defending bad cops and racists is NOT the job of the conservative movement.
KD
maryMay 28, 2020, 8:57 AM
Jewel, if you see this, great video. Do you know of anyone addressing how we can escape these proposals?
JackMay 28, 2020, 9:04 AM
Kevin, I’ve read all of the comments that have been posted and, unless I’m missing something, I haven’t read anything that attempts to justify this event. Some of us lean toward the idea that trouble with police can usually be prevented if folks simply comply with the police and others seem to think that all cops are evil thugs, no matter the incident. On the streets of our violent cities they are charged with law enforcement so, however you view them, it’s best to do what they say and deal with problems after the fact.
I think this death was completely avoidable but the “citizens” of Minneapolis are on fire and out of control over the matter and they’re looting and burning, raising all amount of Hell and destroying public and private property and without a doubt, the street is turning this thing into a racial matter.
Some will view their behavior and the destruction of parts of the city and businesses as something that is deserved but here’s the deal: Blacks murder each other individually or in groups on a daily basis and they do it all over the country. They kill their mommas, daddies, brothers, sisters and children and other than an occasional comment of something like: “That’s so sad”, or; “He was a good boy”, etc., there is no civil outrage about those deaths.
The black community never issues a statement or demands justice from other blacks who engage in planned, purposeful, and indiscriminate killing….aka MURDER. They damned sure don’t burn down businesses or destroy peoples’ properties and other than a by-line or a comment by a 5:00 news reader, little else is said about it. They’re dead, it’s announced, witnesses say they don’t “know nuffins'”, the police try to investigate and occasionally they’ll bring a perp to justice but that’s pretty much it. No riots, no community outrage, no efforts to squash drug or gang activity….nada. And life goes on until the next day when another killing is announced.
So, in terms of expressing hatred, outrage and a demand for justice, how do you compare this black guy’s death, committed by the hands of some addled LEO’s to the death of hundreds of blacks of every gender and age, committed by their own race?
Bob BobbyMay 28, 2020, 9:22 AM
I was shot, stabbed & left for dead by a nigger twice my size. I still have lead in my back, I could care less about any black piece of shit. Fuck them.
DWEEZIL THE WEASELMay 28, 2020, 9:34 AM
As a 30+ year Peace Officer I can say in my training and experience, we were never schooled in stepping/kneeling on anyone’s neck. And, I worked in the era way before Tasers, Pepper Spray, and other “non-lethal” devices. All I had was a S&W six-shooter, hickory baton, handcuffs, and(most vital) correct training in the California Penal Code. I was also trained by my agency to act as a public servant. The real tragedy is two-fold: In the early 1980’s police training went from the concept of public service, to an “us versus them” mentality. The general public was considered the enemy. Then, the contrived “War on Drugs” started by Ronnie and Nancy Rayguns and continued by Poppy Bush and his Illuminati, enriched police agencies with FEDGOV debt bucks in the form of asset forfeiture laws and grants for more toys. The rest is history.
The second and, in my opinion, insurmountable problem is recruitment. Police agencies recruit from society at large. Present day reveals most agencies here in the FSSA have lowered the bar out of necessity, in that most right-thinking young men and women have no desire to stick their necks in the government noose. I have done my best in my second career as a school teacher to dissuade the younglings to enter into uniformed police work. The downsides far outweigh the upsides.
So what you eventually end up with is a culture of isolation and clannishness similar to a street gang. It has been opined cops are actually the biggest gang in Amerika. And, as I look at some of the tatted-up, shaved-headed, buffed/’roided out Orcs and Orcettes with badges, I am reminded of the timeless Latin phrase: Res ipsa loquitur.
But, do not get me wrong. We need law enforcement agencies to preserve the public peace and prevent violations of law. And, any cop worth his/her salary who has had to deal with “persons of color” has a litany of horror stories about such encounters. I have my own unpleasant encounters with negroes. They started long before I ever pinned a badge on my chest.
I see no good outcome from this, as with other incidents of police murder which are becoming almost a monthly occurrence. But when it involves Blacks, you can count on violent retaliation which will spill out into the white community. Remember the Beltway Snipers. Keep in mind what happened recently to the old couple in the cemetery in Delaware. The Black Community is developing their own version of ” One Hundred Heads”. This will not end well. Plan accordingly.
danMay 28, 2020, 11:23 AM
The cop was wrong to use that technique, but just because the suspect went limp DOES NOT necessarily mean the cop killed him. He could have OD’d on drugs. You have to wait for the autopsy before you morons can start throwing the word “murder” around. Dumbasses
Auntie AnalogueMay 28, 2020, 11:29 AM
ghostsniper wrote: “[T]he term ‘restitution’ has 2 sides to it’s meaning. In itself it is punishment to the perpetrator, and it serves to compensate the victim for their loss. Understand, the word ‘victim’ is not isolated to the person that was directly harmed. For instance, if you have life insurance and die your benefactor(s) are compensated for their loss.”
My dear ghostsniper, your notion of restitution is inapt because you conflated a criminal matter with a civil matter. There is no restitution to the dead, there is no restitution to the surviving relatives of the dead. Payment to the relatives of the dead is not restitution and it’s not a criminal matter, it’s a civil penalty, and you yourself grasped that when you wrote that “it is punishment to the perpetrator.” Penalty/punishment is not restitution. And a relative of the slain is not a victim, is not the victim: the only victim is the slain. The surviving relative is not the victim, he is the aggrieved.
Second, your attempt to liken punishment for commission of a crime to life insurance is a category error. No criminal pays penalty or is punished in advance of commission of a crime, while life insurance is a civil contract paid-up in advance; and a life insurance benefit paid to the beneficiary is neither penalty, nor restitution, nor compensation: it is simply a benefit that proceeds from the terms defined in the policy contract.
In jurisprudence crime is a criminal matter while life insurance is a civil matter. Even in a criminal murder case a court cannot and will not assess a sum for the convicted murderer to pay to the aggrieved relatives of his victim. In a criminal case a court can apply to the convicted only the proper sentence specified in criminal law. It’s only in a wrongful death civil suit that a jury may assess such a sum against the defendant – and that sum is not restitution (because the deceased victim cannot be paid restitution) it’s compensation.
Lastly, “if you have life insurance and die your benefactor(s) are compensated for their loss” is incorrect. It appears that you’ve confused benefactor with beneficiary. No “benefactor” is compensated, it’s the policy’s beneficiary who receives the policy’s benefit, and that benefit is not compensation, it’s simply the contracted benefit. The benefactor is the individual who’d paid the premium for the life insurance policy in which the benefactor has named the beneficiary, or beneficiaries, of the policy.
Let’s move on to police exceeding their authority. Has no one here heard of the Sheriff of Nottingham? Police abuse of their authority is not a 21st century novelty. Indeed the Bible is full of tales of the Chosen People’s Big Shots indulging in corruption or overstepping their authority over their lessers. This occurs most often, if not only, in a system that has been corrupted by those at the top of the power pyramid, such as appertains today with the FBI, CIA, NSA conspiring, apparently with knowledge and approval of the chief executive, to rig the 2016 election and subsequently, with ample aid and abetting from the minor judiciary and Enemedia-Pravda, to vex and depose a duly elected president. As the saying goes, “The fish rots from the head down.”
John VenletMay 28, 2020, 11:46 AM
Well, Dan, us here dumbasses must be totally blinkered by the video evidence, with audio, of a man down on ground with a cop’s knee on his neck, in all likelihood pressing on the man’s carotid artery, repeatedly stating, begging actually, that he cannot breathe. While you may be correct that Floyd was not murdered right there on the ground in videoed living color for all of us to see and hear, but the man is certainly damn well dead, and regardless of whether or not the Floyd had drugs in his system, or some other comorbidity (word of the day) the cops’ actions do not speak well of their alleged duty to protect and to serve.
ghostsniperMay 28, 2020, 2:56 PM
@Auntie, yes, the current system works rather well, at making victims of all and benefit to a few, so leave it alone.
It’s all going to burn, eventually. Probably in our lifetime.
HMay 28, 2020, 7:27 PM
Ghost, most of the time you seem pretty smart and you’ve been around quite a while now, but I’ve been around this game longer than you have, and I’m relatively smart and well educated myself. Here’s the thing laid bare. The man is dead. You propose the perps make restitution.
How? They can’t, he’s dead, there ain’t no fixin’ that. End of story. You talk about this as if a simple financial transaction can set things right. Tell you what. Let’s say somebody kills the person you hold nearest and dearest to your heart. How much money would it take for you to feel restituted? There isn’t enough money and property on this planet for me to enter into that transaction.
ghostsniperMay 29, 2020, 4:13 AM
H sed: “I’ve been around this game longer than you have…”
=========
What does this mean? I’ve been online since 1988. Been paying attention for longer than that. I’m not an expert at anything, but I am constantly learning.
Look, restitution isn’t about “feels, or feelings”, it’s about 2 things. Penalizing the criminals, and an attempt at compensating the victims for their loss. For some reason you think the dead person is the only victim, yet you turn around and acknowledge “the person you hold nearest and dearest”.
How much is a human life worth, you might ask? I will suggest that you take a look at what insurance company’s pay out for deaths. I will also suggest that others will suffer because of the dead dude being murdered. His wife and kids no longer have his provisions, nor do any of his family and friends have his companionship. A tremendous void is created when a person is killed and it takes a long time to get past it, if ever.
Prisoners sitting in jail cells for periods of time does a disservice to everyone, and the justice system keeps making victims of everybody. Most people, it seems, do not think about this stuff much as it’s a serious subject and laziness is the name of the game these days. If you’d like more info on this stuff go take a look at Lew Rockwells archives back in the late 90’s, early 00’s, where it’s all laid out in detail. Remember though, once you learn it you’ll never go back to thinking the old way. Once you turn on the light in enlightenment you can never turn it off.
And one more thing, yes you can get blood out of a turnip, the IRS does it all day long 365 days a year.
HMay 29, 2020, 5:25 AM
Ghost, I am older than you are, and have seen blood splattered during genuine armed conflict, and picked up the dead myself, and care not at all about how long you or anyone else has been on line. Those are my credentials. You called me out by saying, and I quote via copy/paste to avoid mistakes:
“Restitution must be paid by the guilty to the victim(s).
The purpose of justice is to make the victims whole.
Caging the perps does not do that, it just makes everything worse.”
No. You want to see worse, let those guys go without a long time behind bars, and you’ll see worse. The facts of the case, which you keep talking around, are these: The man is dead, and is therefore not available for compensation. Everybody else can pick up the pieces and move on, one way or the other, but he ain’t moving. How do you propose he or his family be compensated? This life insurance you keep bringing up? No. There is no number big enough to restore that man’s life either to himself or to his family, and even if there was, no insurer on the planet will take out a policy on him now. And that, sir, is as final as final gets. Adieu.
Kevin in PAMay 29, 2020, 8:37 AM
This has been and interesting thread.
Picking up on the dialogue between H and Ghost;
It may interest all to know that there are sort of actuary metrics by which the courts have determined “just compensation” for whatever the injustice that was suffered.
I had an incident in WA State back in the 90s. I will spare all the details, but essentially I was arrested and detained for almost 9 hours for the “crime of Jay-walking”. It was a non-arrestable offense. A misdemeanor infraction that should have resulted in me being, at the worst, cited for not crossing at the crosswalk – $35 fine. Mail it in or come to city court and fight it. Instead the two steroid ingesting, gym-rats in blue, with whom I had had a previous contact for distributing free copies of the U.S. Constitution, decided to cuff me and slam my face on the trunk of the car. Detained for hours and released with additional bogus charge of resisting arrest. It didn’t happen. I filed a civil claim and settled before trial for a check from the city for $5K….with a letter stating that my claim was without merit and no admission of guilt on the part of the city or its officers…..Right, so why are you cutting me a check for $5K?
Long story short, in the process I learned that the federal courts have set standards for wrongful incarceration based on number of hours / days, etc. This is, of course, if one were to win a jury decision of wrongful imprisonment. IIRC at that time the value placed on a citizen’s time for being unlawfully detained was something like $48K per day and on down a list of body parts up to and including snuffing you out. I found that knowledge to be quite disturbing.
ghostsniperMay 29, 2020, 7:15 PM
“…let those guys go without a long time behind bars…”
=========
I never said anything even remotely like that, you just made it up.
Even at your age you seem incapable of thinking and I’m tired of trying to school someone unable to learn and is convinced the present criminal system is running just fine. I’m done here.
hooodathunkitMay 29, 2020, 10:25 PM
Well, ghostsniper is a cantankerous old ass, speaks in broken riddles that most probably don’t have a point, is unsavory to stand near, and most probably needs to be put out of his misery, yadda-yadda. But he’s right about crime and punishment. The foundation of our law is a formalization of ancient tribal demands. When a person was killed, ‘the victim’ was closest family. Intra-tribal would probably kill the perpetrator or a family member; inter-tribal the eye-for-an-eye also prevailed, but was often negotiated by the chiefs.
But cattle for a life is a transaction the survivors can make. Some muslim law still makes sense; sentence a murderer to death but the family can over-rule with a lesser penalty that is usually in exchange for cash.
Today we allow the state to extract the ‘revenge’ originally accorded to the victim. When a person is killed, ‘the victim’ is closest family. In this case, under modern law, the victim statements prior to sentencing will be made by Floyd’s family. But assuming the cop gets convicted to 35 years (or life) what does that do to help the victims for the loss of their son; lost earning, care in their old age, or companionship? The modern answer is ‘nothing’ because the cop’s doing time, getting 3 squares, law library and educational access, etc., all at taxpayer expense. IOW Floyd’s family will be paying for a (assumed) murdering bastard to eat, drink, and live a life of little worry.
You may not agree with Mr. gs, but I see nobody offering better alternatives. Saying ‘There isn’t enough money and property on this planet‘ is emotional BS, because A) Nobody is priceless to society, and B) as already pointed out, in this view the victim is dead. That ‘logic’ has the cop off free and clear.
Society can and does put cash values on life. Actuaries and DoD have reimbursement tables of life lost and every imaginable combination of limbs lost. Ghostsniper may have made more sense if he’d offered some examples, but then no-one else offered any either.
Saw on Weasel Zippers (weaslezippers.us) theat the cop is being charged w/ first degree murder.
Also, the Dod is spinning up to send troops (MPs) to Minneapolis, and maybe elsewhere.
Welcome to June 2020!
Real World Address for Donations, Mash Notes and Hate Mail
Gerard Van der Leun
1692 MANGROVE AVE
APT 379
Chico, Ca 95926
Green Pants Interior by Klahn
Who Am I? by Carl Sandburg
My head knocks against the stars.
My feet are on the hilltops.
My finger-tips are in the valleys and shores of universal life.
Down in the sounding foam of primal things I reach my hands and play with pebbles of destiny.
I have been to hell and back many times.
I know all about heaven, for I have talked with God.
I dabble in the blood and guts of the terrible.
I know the passionate seizure of beauty
And the marvelous rebellion of man at all signs reading “Keep Off.”
My name is Truth and I am the most elusive captive in the universe.
Duty, Beauty, Liberty, Country, Honor, Family, Faith — Plus a few simple easy to follow rules for guys
Men saw the stars at the edge of the sea
They thought great thoughts about liberty
Poets wrote down words that did fit
Writers wrote books
Thinkers thought about it
Take it where you find it
Can’t leave it alone
You will find a purpose
To carry it on
Mainly when you find it
Your heart will be strong
About it
Many’s the road I have walked upon
Many’s the hour between dusk and dawn
Many’s the time
Many’s the mile
I see it all now
Through the eyes of a child
Take it where you find it
Can’t leave it alone
You will find a purpose
To carry it on
Mainly when you find it
Your heart will be strong
About it
[Chorus]
Lost dreams and found dreams
In America
In America
In America
Lost dreams and found dreams
In America
In America
In America
And close your eyes
Leave it all for a while
Leave the world
And your worries behind
You will build on whatever is real
And wake up each day
To a new waking dream
Take it where you find it
Can’t leave it alone
You will find a purpose
To carry it on
Mainly when you find it
Your heart will be strong
About it
[Chorus]
Change, change come over
Change come over
Talkin’ about a change
Change, change
Change come over, now
Change, change, change come over
I’m gonna walk down the street
Until I see
My shining light
I’m gonna walk down the street
Until I see
My shining light
I’m gonna walk down the street
Until I see
My shining light
I’m gonna walk down the street
Until I see
My shining light
I see my light
See my light
See my shining light
I see my light
See my light
See my shining light
UPDATE: All four cops involved were summarily fired while the expected protests and riots jumped off in Minneapolis to be seasoned with tear gas and rubber bullets. The nation has more than enough to do this summer without dealing with this sort of racial animosity. At a time when all hands need to work together this the very last thing we need. And yet… and yet… here we are again
Gerard Van der Leun
Comments on this entry are closed.
Every reader, here, should realize that what has happened to this black man, at the hands of the cops, you know those guys who are supposed “to protect” and “to serve” we the people, that many cops will just as willingly do this to a white man as America continues to unravel due to all politicians’ desires to maintain the course toward total control of the American people.
Americans see this type of thing go down time and time again, with no repercussions against the perpetrators. If you don’t think the cops will do this to you because you’re a white man, well, get out there and break a few lockdown rules, and when the cops show up to cite your ass, or arrest, and you begin loudly claiming your alleged constitutional freedoms, see how fast you end up on the ground with a knee on your neck, or the boot of the state stomping on your face.
While race plays a role in some of this, I do not accept the assertion offered on Black Authentic Truth @ the YouTube site. Rather, I see this as another example of excessive use of force that has become an epidemic in America. Plenty of non-black folks have been victims of it as well.
Yesterday I commented about Colonel Cooper’s stance re; armed men with masks. His words were in response to the Waco debacle. It is my firm belief, and I said it at the time, that the lack of accountability for wrongful actions by federal police set a precedent and that Americans would come to rue the day we allowed them so much power and so littler oversight. It seems that day has arrive and we are now seeing and feeling it everywhere.
The police in America are under-trained, over-gunned thanks to bargain basement sales of military equipment into the hands of civilian “peace officers” across the land. Many of them possess an attitude of Us versus Them. Many of them are like a 4 year old boy with a hammer. Everything looks like a nail to the 4 y.o. To the poorly trained and overzealous cops with a gun or pepper spray every problem is met with force and more force. And finally, the matter of prosecutorial immunity is crap and should be done away with entirely.
Shiny badges and state issued costumes should not offer special privileges. If a LEO kills he/she should be held accountable. I am not saying cops should never use force, but when they do, there had damn well better be a very good reason for doing so and not a pile of lies coming from behind a blue wall of silence.
Look, all they want is just a pinch of incense in the thurible. They just want you to take a bite of forbidden meat. Not even a bite really. Just…a…taste is all. Really, no big deal.
The Health Stasis need to become frightened. Because someone is going to trace them…and then contact them…and it won’t go well for them.
https://youtu.be/YIVPyKLyRjI
Be sure to applaud them every evening at 8 pm.
John Venlet,
Absolutely in full agreement.
When the boot of the state is stomping on your neck, it matters not what the political flavor of that particular jurisdiction may be. It is THE STATE -v- THE PEOPLE. Please see the book written by Aaron Zelman (RIP) and Claire Wolfe by the same name. Also read James Bovard – LOST RIGHTS.
Oh, holy shit.
Just when you thought things couldn’t get worse.
I clicked the video, but couldn’t watch. Inasmuch as I acknowledge that cops have to be hard ass at times, there’s just no excuse for this. None. Those cops bought the ticket, and we’re all going to be on the hook for the ride. There will be hell to pay.
You know, I’m trying to keep faith and not fall into the darkness of raw pessimism, but I’m getting a sick feeling in my gut that the world as we knew it is gone. We’re not going home again.
JWM
My rage is triggered elsewhere.
But there was no video of the crime nor news coverage to tell the absolute horrific story of Channon Gail Christian and Hugh Christopher Newsom, Jr.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2174l0lCGVA
What saddens me is that white people don’t assemble like this and demand firings when cops arrest white people for stupid things like playing on a playground. White people need to break this irrational belief that cops have their best interest at heart and start seeing them as a street gang that is loyal to the people who win elections.
These assholes are going to learn a hard lesson about losing the support of law abiding citizens. Open season.
This isn’t a race issue.
It’s another unaccountable gov’t criminal issue.
This stuff goes on across the entire race spectrum but the communist media only highlights the negro versions.
Both, the criminal gov’t and the communist media need to be entirely wiped out.
Then the rest of us could get on peaceably running our lives as we see fit.
As has been pointed out, a lot of cops are assholes. That they share my color inspires in me no guilt whatsoever, and it shouldn’t you, either. I search in vain for public outpouring of black responsibility when mobs burn their cities, or attack vulnerable whites.
There are assholes. Some of them are men. Some of them are white men. Collective guilt-assignment is a Marxist tactic; surely you know that.
GW Carver was right when he wrote that there were people who were never going to miss an opportunity to incite racial discord, for therein lay their power, their profits, their purpose. Evil people they are. Their pattern of operation has now become boilerplate. First, find the event involving white on black violence, even if you have to invent new racial flavors like “white Mexican”. Next, identify the deep pockets, and set them up for a civil rights-based lawsuit. Whip up the media to promote the narrative of white man bad, black man can’t be blamed. Groundwork is now laid for DOJ Civil Rights hit squad to bring the power of the Deep State against bad white man, and whatever deep pockets to which he’s connected. The Usual Suspects bank millions, in spite of their scheme being nothing more than extortion by race card. Rinse, and repeat…in Miami, NYC, Baltimore, Ferguson, and on and on.
FFS, of course you are “here again”, it’s an election year. You didn’t really think that you weren’t going to be serially bombarded with as many “poor little Trayvons”, “joggers”, and “gentle giants” as they can gin up, of increasingly disparate dubiosity, until the last polls close in November, did you?
Hell, the local media, and we’re talking about a #150 market or so, dreaming of the bright lights of Podunk, made a half assed attempt at cranking up a white and cop lynch mob narrative, but that never caught on, largely owing to a substantial percentage of the participants having near relations among “tha community”. C’mon, racial incendiarists gotta incendiarise, but you gotta work with whatcha got, unless you can slip in a ringer, e.g. Rachel Jeantel, Saint Skittles’ purported beloveded.
Lunatic that I am, based on the past ten years of performances by race baiting ambulance chaser Ben Crump, I am inclined to await the results of the autopsy and any further available evidence before passing judgment on anyone involved, bothered as I am by that video. Hell, the regional hostage roasting team feebie dickwad who nearly dislocated my shoulder did that knee on neck thing to me, albeit for considerably shorter duration, and I am, last time I checked, pretty damned white, and on that day was wearing uniform khakis with O-6 collar devices, so not exactly the sort of skreet rabble LEOs generally have to rassle, and I can assure you I was in no way resisting. (It must be said here that by their nature, HRTs tend to deal with the more ambitious amongst the criminal element, so some slack may be accorded them in their methods, but not, say, shooting through the head women carrying infants).
Now, I yield to few indeed in my admiration of Mr. Zappa’s oeuvre, was and will be a fan prolly for life, but there are times when I wonder whether ol’ Dave McGowan wasn’t onto something with “Weird Scenes Inside the Canyon”. Wonder also how the twenties will stack up against the sixties in the insanity (whether organic or manufactured) sweepstakes, although I have to say that the first five months of this decade look to be LIT! Funny, the only times I have entertained any thought of abandoning my apparently toxic whiteness were upon considering the utterly meritless pelf to be gained by checking a different ethnicity box.
Life in the Twin Cities must be something to behold. Attempts to reach Justine Damond for comment have gone unanswered, so I have tasked the love of life with effecting communication from that realm, as yet to no great success, though some spookily weird activity of late from one of the dogs has me a little curious. I had an acquaintance some decades back, a near Adonis of a fellow, one of those for whom the spoils of life are oft laid unbidden at their feet, whom I knew when living in LA (lower Alabama) as a Coastie, who did postgraduate work at Minnesota, and about as bigoted a white man as I have ever encountered as regards our darker brethren, who loved, loved, loved it up there. Said he had never lived amidst so many kindred spirits, and that included beau coups time in coonass country, in Mobile, and in the foreign outposts of the GOMEX awl bidness diaspora, Aberdeen, Isfahan, und so weiter, so that is no mean feat.
So, what’s the consensus on “Heads On Pikes” as cruel and/or unusual punishment?
Theirs? No problem.
Ours? Problem.
Years ago when I was a young sprout I worked for 6 months with a police department. My short stint saw enough violence to convince me, right quick, that I wanted nothing….nothing at all….to do with that job and now that the world has gone from a little rough and troublesome to full out bat shit psycho, especially when a white cop has to deal with a black law breaker, I’m so very glad I didn’t nut up and stay on that job.
This guy’s attitude was a solid “fuck you” when the police were initiating their contact with him and he elected to resist arrest. I would not be at all surprised if he was high on something but even were he not, all he had to do was comply with the police. Instead, he chose otherwise and he was dealt with properly by a takedown.
It took the force of more than one or two policemen to subdue that guy and the boys in blue should have cuffed him and permitted him to settle down. That knee on the neck thing works well to initiate restraint but with the full weight of a policeman behind it for multiple minutes there will very likely be a death or permanent injury and public opinion will crucify the cops who failed to recognize it and not surprisingly will almost certainly inspire cops all over the country to say “screw it” and not extend themselves to halt the crime in black hoods.
There was an incident in Mississippi several days ago when a black policemen grabbed a young black thug by his neck and held him against a car, insisting that he settle down. The policeman could have creamed that kid but he just held the pressure on him to keep him compliant and he didn’t hurt or harm the little gangsta but he is on suspension, pending an investigation of “police brutality”. He will be toast too, regardless of his explanation and reasoning because if you are black, the thug is always right.
I have been watching this civil rights thing for more than 60 years and other than the fact that most of the blacks I know today are recipients of some kind of State and/or Federal aid, I’m not the least bit optimistic that any appreciable number of these special people will ever ascend any farther than they have risen today. Those who have ascended will and are going as far as time, education and talent will take them but the majority refuse to assimilate, play by the rules, stay out of crime, get off of drugs, stay out of gangs, jointly parent their illegitimate children, or work to find a way to disconnect from their “entitlements” and they always blame their failure and misery on white people.
It is very evident in their behavior, and you can just about set your watch to it, that their hatred of white people is the foundation for their solidarity. White people don’t sit around and plan or scheme against blacks but you cannot present that fact to them and have the majority agree. Contemporaneously, they refuse to see they are the common denominator to every single bad thing that happens to them.
Hey Jack,
” knee on the neck thing works well to initiate restraint but with the full weight of a policeman behind it for multiple minutes there will very likely be a death or permanent injury and public opinion will crucify the cops who failed to recognize it …”
A man pleading that he “can’t breathe”, for multiple minutes, after being handcuffed and with a cop’s knee on his neck….until he went unconscious and the cop still remained on top of him.
……..ummm exactly what part of that scenario caused Officer McMurder to “fail to recognize” that his actions would “very likely cause death or permanent injury”?
Let me tell you, Jack, there is a growing disdain for these parasites in blue within communities of every race and ethnicity across the country. There is also a growing disdain for their apologists. You are certainly free to continue to lick your overlord’s boots. But if the attitude you expressed in your comment is held widely by LEO’s, and I suspect it is, then, I suggest they should get out of that line of work, because they are a danger to the citizenry. At the rate things are going they are creating a very dangerous climate for any badge and any uniform. Every LEO in this country better think about it. They are not untouchable.
You are right about one thing in this case. Public opinion will virtually crucify these thugs, as well it should. From what I saw, they deserve to be indicted for murder and after conviction they should do hard time….and take their bloated pensions away too!
A good conversation. Several comments that I wish that I could click a “like”. (Kevin, John)
Anonymous, I understand what you’re saying and I’m not in agreement with the cop staying on top of him as long as he did. He had that guy under control and he should have enlisted the assistance of the other officers to sit him up. I don’t approve of their refusal to let the guy get up…NOT AT ALL and I’m certainly not gonna speculate on the mindset of the officer who had that guy pinned down but I am aware of the stress that police and other LEO’s go through when they have to deal with violence. If you watch that officer, his posture was almost as if he couldn’t understand what was being asked of him.
I don’t lick anyone’s boots but let me remind you….or simply explain it to you because I seriously doubt that you have ever encountered a violent person that you had to restrain….that these cops have to do this every day of their lives and they are well aware of the danger they face and they’re even more aware of that problematic reaction of people who won’t get involved but who arm chair quarterback their every move. Police officers never know what they’re going to run into and all this perp had to do was comply with their requests and it wouldn’t have ended this way.
That said, how would you have handled it?
Permit me to suggest something to YOU. If you ever run into a situation where you are threatened, or attacked then do the right thing based upon your attitude about cops: Take it like a little man and don’t get LEO’s involved.
That way you won’t end up cussing LEO’s if they don’t handle it just as you might think they should.
Cruelty: I know it when I see it, and I saw it in that video along with that policeman’s fellow officers’ failure to stop his cruelty.
I”m going to state what is obvious to me but may make many cringe: White cops kill a black man and the result is outrage. Blacks slaughter each other en masse for years in Chicago and absolutely NOBODY cares.
Body-Cam Video Of Daniel Shaver Shooting: R.I.P. Mr. Shaver
There were no protest marches, the POS cop got off scot free…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=VBUUx0jUKxc&bpctr=1590623599
Snake is right, of course, and not limited to Chicago by any means.
Of course we wouldn’t be discussing this at all if somebody had used some common sense, so allow me to state something else that should be obvious. Being a cop is hard. It’s harder when you’re dumb. Fat, dumb and being a cop is no way to go thru life, son, and those dumbasses who killed that guy need to be put in jail for the longest stretch possible.
those dumbasses who killed that guy need to be put in jail for the longest stretch possible.
========
No.
Restitution must be paid by the guilty to the victim(s).
The purpose of justice is to make the victims whole.
Caging the perps does not do that, it just makes everything worse.
Cops disgust me. They have been on my stink list for decades after watching them beat up hippies in Frisco Cali. Always numerous cops beating one hippie. Cops are cowards. Dirt bags. Action freaks on steroids.
Maybe not all cops fit my description. But 90% is not far off. Yea, heads on pikes fits my vision of them nicely. French Revolution style. The bastards are immune to any serious punishment just like politicians.
I’ve lived in Minneapolis for over 20 years. Minneapolis PD has long had a reputation for violence. But this isn’t some cop overreaction.
The victim was not resisting. What’s more, even though you cannot see it, two other officers were on top of him. What I can’t figure out is why. He should have been in the squad car. There seems to be no good reason for him to be on the ground.
Thursday night featured protesters taunting police. Because several council members objected to the police defending their station and vehicles on Wednesday, Thursday police stood by while Looters For Justice cleaned out the Target across the street. Arsonists For Floyd torched a car parts store, and a liquor store was looted again.
I have seen Minneapolis cops turn a nonviolent situation into a violent one. This seems to be standard cop training now. If the suspect does comply perfectly AND gracefully, slam them on the ground.
Before I comment about the video, the proof that the cops over-applied force is that the poor guy is dead. That is undeniable; no argument there, and the correct thing to do would be to keep them on the roster and investigate the event thoroughly. External investigation, and also lock the cops up for their own safety.
I have no police experience, but I did have another guardsman who was a cop take a prisoner in war games, and I assisted him. I was so impressed with how he detained the soldier with just a simple hand touch to the wrist behind the guy’s back; it was like watching a magical trick and I have never forgotten the complete and total mastery my friend applied without even rumpling his sleeve. Good, experienced cops are awesome to see and I wouldn’t even think of fucking with one.
Pigs exist, though. That is evident because there are fuktards in every group.
The vic is adopting a non-compliance dead-man attitude, and there is some data indicating that he was high. It certainly is resisting arrest. Never trust a video caption (HFS). Violence is like an explosion; it radiates outward and does not stop until spent or resisted terminally. Maybe the cops the night before had an arrest go bad and police got hurt. Maybe 2 nights before they had a cop hospitalized in the same type of event. I understand this: do not fuck around in an arrest. Fucking around in an arrest is cause for lights out. Not death, but certainly you will be brought to compliance.
It was manslaughter. There is no racial component that is evident, except for some meta-narratives caused by our long cultural racial focus. Maybe there was racism, but I didn’t see that. I didn’t see everything but I did see an awful video, that’s for sure. There may be 50 reasons why the cops had to apply violence, but there used to be a thing called the least application of force necessary. They failed there.
But don’t go on about the vic did nothing. I can see he resisted arrest. HFS! For suspicion of forgery? Something went down there and videos show nothing.
HFS we need better cops.
Ghostie, my man. You’re pretty smart, but the guy is dead. ‘Splain it to me how he gets restituted up now? Write him a check? For how much? Ten million bucks is a nice number. Might as well be ten gazillion. He can’t cash it. No. Probably the worst fears those cops have would be to get thrown into gen-pop. Lock ’em up for life, however short that might be in gen-pop. Fini.
H, first off the term “restitution” has 2 sides to it’s meaning. In itself it is punishment to the perpetrator, and it serves to compensate the victim for their loss. Understand, the word “victim” is not isolated to the person that was directly harmed. For instance, if you have life insurance and die your benefactor(s) are compensated for their loss.
Once again, long ago, justice in the USA served a purpose that was useful to the people that it served, but now, as with most things gov’t, it serves benefit to a few select persons at great cost to all others. In short, who benefits by putting the perpetrator(s) in prison? And, how are the victims compensated for their loss with the current justice system?
Because these changes over time are so glacially slow and most people can’t be bothered to learn the history, it’s easy for most people to be ignorant to the success of the original processes and the damage created by the current process.
The lesson I would like everyone to learn is – if you fight the police, you could very well die. The fighting should be done in court, not on the street. We will continue to have ‘bad’ cops because, as shown from the comments I’ve read, not too many people would want that job. Since not many would want the job, the standards must be lowered. The irony is, not too many years ago, the policeman was respected – and that was in the days of BANG ….”Stop or I’ll shoot!”
Hmmmmmmmm.
Think about this, folks. Put your emotions aside, and think dispassionately. Four cops. Each one of them, probably without a mark on their records – decide to kill a man in cold blood for no reason. All at the same time. On camera. In front of witnesses.
Call me paranoid, but I get the impression that somebody is trying to manipulate me. But the mass media and the race whores would NEVER try to mislead anyone, right?
NAH.
“…Each one of them, probably without a mark on their records….”
This theory has been debunked. The kneeling cop has a significant list of complaints against him.
That PD has been run by “Out and Proud” Leftists for a looooong time now, so if there’s any blame to go around blame it on Leftist politics.
“Inside every Leftist is a Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out.“
(Or words to that effect. That’s the headline banner on Frontpagemag.com. As true as it’s ever been…)
These are the same cops who will come for your guns under the cover of Red Flag laws.
These are the same cops who will enforce illegal and unconstitutional decrees by governors and mayors and judges.
I used to believe that cops, on average, would refuse to be gun-grabbers because of high moral standards. Now I think that their paychecks, pensions and getting home safe at night are the only values they have.
As much as this sickens me……it sickens me more that some people, who identify as conservatives, will attempt to justify what the cops did just like they are doing with the death of Ahmaud Arbery in Georgia. We cannot do that an have any credibility. Defending bad cops and racists is NOT the job of the conservative movement.
KD
As much as this sickens me……it sickens me more that some people, who identify as conservatives, will attempt to justify what the cops did just like they are doing with the death of Ahmaud Arbery in Georgia. We cannot do that and have any credibility. Defending bad cops and racists is NOT the job of the conservative movement.
KD
Jewel, if you see this, great video. Do you know of anyone addressing how we can escape these proposals?
Kevin, I’ve read all of the comments that have been posted and, unless I’m missing something, I haven’t read anything that attempts to justify this event. Some of us lean toward the idea that trouble with police can usually be prevented if folks simply comply with the police and others seem to think that all cops are evil thugs, no matter the incident. On the streets of our violent cities they are charged with law enforcement so, however you view them, it’s best to do what they say and deal with problems after the fact.
I think this death was completely avoidable but the “citizens” of Minneapolis are on fire and out of control over the matter and they’re looting and burning, raising all amount of Hell and destroying public and private property and without a doubt, the street is turning this thing into a racial matter.
Some will view their behavior and the destruction of parts of the city and businesses as something that is deserved but here’s the deal: Blacks murder each other individually or in groups on a daily basis and they do it all over the country. They kill their mommas, daddies, brothers, sisters and children and other than an occasional comment of something like: “That’s so sad”, or; “He was a good boy”, etc., there is no civil outrage about those deaths.
The black community never issues a statement or demands justice from other blacks who engage in planned, purposeful, and indiscriminate killing….aka MURDER. They damned sure don’t burn down businesses or destroy peoples’ properties and other than a by-line or a comment by a 5:00 news reader, little else is said about it. They’re dead, it’s announced, witnesses say they don’t “know nuffins'”, the police try to investigate and occasionally they’ll bring a perp to justice but that’s pretty much it. No riots, no community outrage, no efforts to squash drug or gang activity….nada. And life goes on until the next day when another killing is announced.
So, in terms of expressing hatred, outrage and a demand for justice, how do you compare this black guy’s death, committed by the hands of some addled LEO’s to the death of hundreds of blacks of every gender and age, committed by their own race?
I was shot, stabbed & left for dead by a nigger twice my size. I still have lead in my back, I could care less about any black piece of shit. Fuck them.
As a 30+ year Peace Officer I can say in my training and experience, we were never schooled in stepping/kneeling on anyone’s neck. And, I worked in the era way before Tasers, Pepper Spray, and other “non-lethal” devices. All I had was a S&W six-shooter, hickory baton, handcuffs, and(most vital) correct training in the California Penal Code. I was also trained by my agency to act as a public servant. The real tragedy is two-fold: In the early 1980’s police training went from the concept of public service, to an “us versus them” mentality. The general public was considered the enemy. Then, the contrived “War on Drugs” started by Ronnie and Nancy Rayguns and continued by Poppy Bush and his Illuminati, enriched police agencies with FEDGOV debt bucks in the form of asset forfeiture laws and grants for more toys. The rest is history.
The second and, in my opinion, insurmountable problem is recruitment. Police agencies recruit from society at large. Present day reveals most agencies here in the FSSA have lowered the bar out of necessity, in that most right-thinking young men and women have no desire to stick their necks in the government noose. I have done my best in my second career as a school teacher to dissuade the younglings to enter into uniformed police work. The downsides far outweigh the upsides.
So what you eventually end up with is a culture of isolation and clannishness similar to a street gang. It has been opined cops are actually the biggest gang in Amerika. And, as I look at some of the tatted-up, shaved-headed, buffed/’roided out Orcs and Orcettes with badges, I am reminded of the timeless Latin phrase: Res ipsa loquitur.
But, do not get me wrong. We need law enforcement agencies to preserve the public peace and prevent violations of law. And, any cop worth his/her salary who has had to deal with “persons of color” has a litany of horror stories about such encounters. I have my own unpleasant encounters with negroes. They started long before I ever pinned a badge on my chest.
I see no good outcome from this, as with other incidents of police murder which are becoming almost a monthly occurrence. But when it involves Blacks, you can count on violent retaliation which will spill out into the white community. Remember the Beltway Snipers. Keep in mind what happened recently to the old couple in the cemetery in Delaware. The Black Community is developing their own version of ” One Hundred Heads”. This will not end well. Plan accordingly.
The cop was wrong to use that technique, but just because the suspect went limp DOES NOT necessarily mean the cop killed him. He could have OD’d on drugs. You have to wait for the autopsy before you morons can start throwing the word “murder” around. Dumbasses
ghostsniper wrote: “[T]he term ‘restitution’ has 2 sides to it’s meaning. In itself it is punishment to the perpetrator, and it serves to compensate the victim for their loss. Understand, the word ‘victim’ is not isolated to the person that was directly harmed. For instance, if you have life insurance and die your benefactor(s) are compensated for their loss.”
My dear ghostsniper, your notion of restitution is inapt because you conflated a criminal matter with a civil matter. There is no restitution to the dead, there is no restitution to the surviving relatives of the dead. Payment to the relatives of the dead is not restitution and it’s not a criminal matter, it’s a civil penalty, and you yourself grasped that when you wrote that “it is punishment to the perpetrator.” Penalty/punishment is not restitution. And a relative of the slain is not a victim, is not the victim: the only victim is the slain. The surviving relative is not the victim, he is the aggrieved.
Second, your attempt to liken punishment for commission of a crime to life insurance is a category error. No criminal pays penalty or is punished in advance of commission of a crime, while life insurance is a civil contract paid-up in advance; and a life insurance benefit paid to the beneficiary is neither penalty, nor restitution, nor compensation: it is simply a benefit that proceeds from the terms defined in the policy contract.
In jurisprudence crime is a criminal matter while life insurance is a civil matter. Even in a criminal murder case a court cannot and will not assess a sum for the convicted murderer to pay to the aggrieved relatives of his victim. In a criminal case a court can apply to the convicted only the proper sentence specified in criminal law. It’s only in a wrongful death civil suit that a jury may assess such a sum against the defendant – and that sum is not restitution (because the deceased victim cannot be paid restitution) it’s compensation.
Lastly, “if you have life insurance and die your benefactor(s) are compensated for their loss” is incorrect. It appears that you’ve confused benefactor with beneficiary. No “benefactor” is compensated, it’s the policy’s beneficiary who receives the policy’s benefit, and that benefit is not compensation, it’s simply the contracted benefit. The benefactor is the individual who’d paid the premium for the life insurance policy in which the benefactor has named the beneficiary, or beneficiaries, of the policy.
Let’s move on to police exceeding their authority. Has no one here heard of the Sheriff of Nottingham? Police abuse of their authority is not a 21st century novelty. Indeed the Bible is full of tales of the Chosen People’s Big Shots indulging in corruption or overstepping their authority over their lessers. This occurs most often, if not only, in a system that has been corrupted by those at the top of the power pyramid, such as appertains today with the FBI, CIA, NSA conspiring, apparently with knowledge and approval of the chief executive, to rig the 2016 election and subsequently, with ample aid and abetting from the minor judiciary and Enemedia-Pravda, to vex and depose a duly elected president. As the saying goes, “The fish rots from the head down.”
Well, Dan, us here dumbasses must be totally blinkered by the video evidence, with audio, of a man down on ground with a cop’s knee on his neck, in all likelihood pressing on the man’s carotid artery, repeatedly stating, begging actually, that he cannot breathe. While you may be correct that Floyd was not murdered right there on the ground in videoed living color for all of us to see and hear, but the man is certainly damn well dead, and regardless of whether or not the Floyd had drugs in his system, or some other comorbidity (word of the day) the cops’ actions do not speak well of their alleged duty to protect and to serve.
@Auntie, yes, the current system works rather well, at making victims of all and benefit to a few, so leave it alone.
It’s all going to burn, eventually. Probably in our lifetime.
Ghost, most of the time you seem pretty smart and you’ve been around quite a while now, but I’ve been around this game longer than you have, and I’m relatively smart and well educated myself. Here’s the thing laid bare. The man is dead. You propose the perps make restitution.
How? They can’t, he’s dead, there ain’t no fixin’ that. End of story. You talk about this as if a simple financial transaction can set things right. Tell you what. Let’s say somebody kills the person you hold nearest and dearest to your heart. How much money would it take for you to feel restituted? There isn’t enough money and property on this planet for me to enter into that transaction.
H sed: “I’ve been around this game longer than you have…”
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What does this mean? I’ve been online since 1988. Been paying attention for longer than that. I’m not an expert at anything, but I am constantly learning.
Look, restitution isn’t about “feels, or feelings”, it’s about 2 things. Penalizing the criminals, and an attempt at compensating the victims for their loss. For some reason you think the dead person is the only victim, yet you turn around and acknowledge “the person you hold nearest and dearest”.
How much is a human life worth, you might ask? I will suggest that you take a look at what insurance company’s pay out for deaths. I will also suggest that others will suffer because of the dead dude being murdered. His wife and kids no longer have his provisions, nor do any of his family and friends have his companionship. A tremendous void is created when a person is killed and it takes a long time to get past it, if ever.
Prisoners sitting in jail cells for periods of time does a disservice to everyone, and the justice system keeps making victims of everybody. Most people, it seems, do not think about this stuff much as it’s a serious subject and laziness is the name of the game these days. If you’d like more info on this stuff go take a look at Lew Rockwells archives back in the late 90’s, early 00’s, where it’s all laid out in detail. Remember though, once you learn it you’ll never go back to thinking the old way. Once you turn on the light in enlightenment you can never turn it off.
And one more thing, yes you can get blood out of a turnip, the IRS does it all day long 365 days a year.
Ghost, I am older than you are, and have seen blood splattered during genuine armed conflict, and picked up the dead myself, and care not at all about how long you or anyone else has been on line. Those are my credentials. You called me out by saying, and I quote via copy/paste to avoid mistakes:
“Restitution must be paid by the guilty to the victim(s).
The purpose of justice is to make the victims whole.
Caging the perps does not do that, it just makes everything worse.”
No. You want to see worse, let those guys go without a long time behind bars, and you’ll see worse. The facts of the case, which you keep talking around, are these: The man is dead, and is therefore not available for compensation. Everybody else can pick up the pieces and move on, one way or the other, but he ain’t moving. How do you propose he or his family be compensated? This life insurance you keep bringing up? No. There is no number big enough to restore that man’s life either to himself or to his family, and even if there was, no insurer on the planet will take out a policy on him now. And that, sir, is as final as final gets. Adieu.
This has been and interesting thread.
Picking up on the dialogue between H and Ghost;
It may interest all to know that there are sort of actuary metrics by which the courts have determined “just compensation” for whatever the injustice that was suffered.
I had an incident in WA State back in the 90s. I will spare all the details, but essentially I was arrested and detained for almost 9 hours for the “crime of Jay-walking”. It was a non-arrestable offense. A misdemeanor infraction that should have resulted in me being, at the worst, cited for not crossing at the crosswalk – $35 fine. Mail it in or come to city court and fight it. Instead the two steroid ingesting, gym-rats in blue, with whom I had had a previous contact for distributing free copies of the U.S. Constitution, decided to cuff me and slam my face on the trunk of the car. Detained for hours and released with additional bogus charge of resisting arrest. It didn’t happen. I filed a civil claim and settled before trial for a check from the city for $5K….with a letter stating that my claim was without merit and no admission of guilt on the part of the city or its officers…..Right, so why are you cutting me a check for $5K?
Long story short, in the process I learned that the federal courts have set standards for wrongful incarceration based on number of hours / days, etc. This is, of course, if one were to win a jury decision of wrongful imprisonment. IIRC at that time the value placed on a citizen’s time for being unlawfully detained was something like $48K per day and on down a list of body parts up to and including snuffing you out. I found that knowledge to be quite disturbing.
“…let those guys go without a long time behind bars…”
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I never said anything even remotely like that, you just made it up.
Even at your age you seem incapable of thinking and I’m tired of trying to school someone unable to learn and is convinced the present criminal system is running just fine. I’m done here.
Well, ghostsniper is a cantankerous old ass, speaks in broken riddles that most probably don’t have a point, is unsavory to stand near, and most probably needs to be put out of his misery, yadda-yadda. But he’s right about crime and punishment. The foundation of our law is a formalization of ancient tribal demands. When a person was killed, ‘the victim’ was closest family. Intra-tribal would probably kill the perpetrator or a family member; inter-tribal the eye-for-an-eye also prevailed, but was often negotiated by the chiefs.
But cattle for a life is a transaction the survivors can make. Some muslim law still makes sense; sentence a murderer to death but the family can over-rule with a lesser penalty that is usually in exchange for cash.
Today we allow the state to extract the ‘revenge’ originally accorded to the victim. When a person is killed, ‘the victim’ is closest family. In this case, under modern law, the victim statements prior to sentencing will be made by Floyd’s family. But assuming the cop gets convicted to 35 years (or life) what does that do to help the victims for the loss of their son; lost earning, care in their old age, or companionship? The modern answer is ‘nothing’ because the cop’s doing time, getting 3 squares, law library and educational access, etc., all at taxpayer expense. IOW Floyd’s family will be paying for a (assumed) murdering bastard to eat, drink, and live a life of little worry.
You may not agree with Mr. gs, but I see nobody offering better alternatives. Saying ‘There isn’t enough money and property on this planet‘ is emotional BS, because A) Nobody is priceless to society, and B) as already pointed out, in this view the victim is dead. That ‘logic’ has the cop off free and clear.
Society can and does put cash values on life. Actuaries and DoD have reimbursement tables of life lost and every imaginable combination of limbs lost. Ghostsniper may have made more sense if he’d offered some examples, but then no-one else offered any either.
Saw on Weasel Zippers (weaslezippers.us) theat the cop is being charged w/ first degree murder.
Also, the Dod is spinning up to send troops (MPs) to Minneapolis, and maybe elsewhere.
Welcome to June 2020!